Mmmm.

Novices really aren't too big a problem right now. Sure, there's a lot of them, and at peak times it can get a tad overwhelming. But it is not nearly to the point where implementing something of this size and complexity would be worth it; every guild does not need its own tour.

It is much better to be taught by players or, failing that, just throw some help files at them. We have the files, newbie, GNT, undersecretaries, the ambassador and his/her aides, guides... everything's fine on that front. If you really want to take the initiative, I suggest you follow Glomdoring's example in creating an ambassador/secretary clan such as the Shadow Envoy. It's one of the few things those crazies have done that I really like. In it they have directions files for each guild to copy into ghelps, they have the novice scrolls for all three guilds, allowing Ebonguard to reach Blacktalon, ect. and all sorts of other nifty things.

I hate having to explain myself.

Thanks for doing so though.

I'm really torn on this. I prefer the personal touch... I encourage all my undersecs to help instead of directing the novice to learn from NPCs so that they can get drawn in to the game.

But I am burning out myself. And if I am... I think a good portion of my novice helpers are as well.

Note this has nothing to do with removing the role undersecs play in greeting/working with novices. It only reduces the workload.

While its great when we can greet and induct each novice personally and fully, undersecs are not paid like Guides are, and too much work can burn out even the most dedicated socializer. Even the Guides focus on individual help, not walking every newbie through the basics of what they need to know and explaining helpfiles to them.

Throwing a host of GHELPs at newbies we can do now, sure. But most aren't going to sit there reading through page after page of confusing information without having someone guide them through what they really need and what it all means. Isn't that -why- we introduce things personally?

I also don't think it is that complex. I'd love to have something more interactive, but I deliberately tried to think of what would be the simplest implementation. A few reactions , one new room for every guild, a new mobile for every guild, and mechanics for reading a script and speaking to certain individuals. It would take significant effort, but not involve phenomenal complexity. (Well, I hope not anyway)

A system like this would definitely not be something that you would use to distance yourself from newbies, rather its another tool to help give the novices a good start.

Something that I don't think should be overlooked is the difference between something like this and a ghelp. Even though they are essentially the same, text that you have to read to understand things, people get caught up in the illusion that when a person or a denizen is saying things those things are truly being spoken and they do not see it in the same way as reading a file. It makes the whole thing more immediate. Having a system like this is better than just endless help files.

Pfft, guides are hardly paid their worth. I was a guide on Imperian for quite some time, and trust me, after the novelty wears off, it's just not worth it!

Imperian has an automated novice system, now, which also includes promoting out of novicehood. I was Head of Novices when this system came in, and suddenly, my aides and I had nothing to do. At. All. Nothing.

I don't want an automated system.

If you want automation, go to Achaea or Imperian. Please.

The people who will push a novice into a system like this and leave them are the same that will tell them to read a few help files and leave them. This won't change that.

For those that -are- interested in guiding novices, it could be a very helpful resource though.

If certain guilds don't want to use it, I don't see why they have to. The same goes for guildhelps - if a guild thinks that helpfiles will encourage undersecs to skimp on their real job by making the novice simply read it themselves, they might choose not to use guildhelps at all. But some guilds do find resources like that useful, and there's no need to deny such a helpful resource to everyone.

Another point on my previous post... We ended up with complete idiots in the guild because we never saw them and got to know them. They show up when nobody's around, do the tasks the NPC tells them to, and bam, they're in the guild. We had idiots getting publicly drunk (which was against guild laws which they never bothered to read), we had SOOOOO many problems.

I'm happy with things how they are. If they're too impatient to wait to talk to people, well, I'm sorry, but Lusternia's not about having your every whim catered to.

Did you read the suggestion, or just the topic subtitle?

Yes.

That doesn't stop me disliking what happened on Imperian. We ALREADY have automated graduation. This would just turns it into something quite similar.

Contrary to some, I actually read entire topics before I post on them.

I'm torn on this idea as well. For one, many people suffer from that teaching burnout... I had myself, and only two of Josun's undersecretaries seem to even want to teach anymore.

On the one hand, this idea would help with giving the novices some idea of our roleplay. This whole process may also give off a bit of magic for new players. I did have a moment of magic in Achaea (which was my first IRE game I've ever played) when a Shaman gave me a ritual after I completed my novice tasks. He used the altar that the guild had to teleport me somewhere, and had all these spirits swirl around my character, judging me and my actions... I know now that those were illusions, but they were really well done illusions.

On the other hand, you'll wind up with people who you don't really know getting ahead in the guild. And I don't believe that really needs explaining. We all know how it is to suddenly see random people promoted from novicehood, people who we never really have the chance to interact with and thus don't really know too well, and they feel as though they don't know us, which is just as bad, really.

I don't know where I stand on this issue, personally.

I gather from the other posts on this topic that most seem to like it, provided a system like this doesn't completely cutout the personal aspect of novice teaching.

I agree. I think this would be an invaluable tool to the guild leadership to help train and introduce novices, start them out with a healthy dose of guild-specific RP, and encourage that RP to continue as the novice grows older.

One change, I would like to see. I don't think that the spawned mobile should teach all the novice skills. Perhaps a couple of the basic skills, but after that, the novice should be encouraged to seek out full guildmembers or a city tutor (Meleris/Aadrak, etc). This way the novice can get a nice RPed intro into the guild, then gradually let them transition into the game.

My guild on Aetolia had something like this, where the novice could learn basic guild history and additional info that the intro didn't tell you. It was never a replacement for an actual person but more as a starting point that saved the actual person having to repeat the same thing over and over. I thought it was a great little feature to the guild and think it would do great over here too. Just in case anyone wants to go check it out it's the Indorani guild on Aetolia, just ask for someone to place you into the intro.

I'd like this for emergencies when I'm training a Novice and another comes along (happens alot these days). Having the script created by the leadership and reviewed by the patron would be nice too.

I've taken to bringing multiple novices to the guild tutor, and having one learn from me, the rest from the tutor. It sorta works, except one is usually faster than the other(s) and gets impatient.

I like the idea, so long as Guild leaders and undersecs/secs can turn the intro on and off.

From a newbie standpoint:

I'm new to Lusternia, as in I played for the very first time last night. I never played any of the other IRE games, though I have heard of them, so I had absolutely no idea what to expect.

I think the automation idea is a good one.

I had alot of personal interaction during my initiation into the guild. I can't stress that enough, I had ALOT of personal interaction during my initiation into the guld and it was fantastic! I was actually quite shocked at the amount of concern that was shown when it had to have seemed like I was just standing around wondering what to do (when in actuality I was trying to read through all the suggested help topics I'd already made a list of). Everyone wanted to know how I was doing, if I had any questions, if I needed any help. Absolutely awesome - Kudos to the Lusternia playerbase for that! Too many games leave newbies to their own devices and thus lose alot of what I like to refer to as true newbies; those of us who are not alternate characters, rerolls, or best friends of a seasoned player who is sitting next to us telling us whats what.

Okay, back on topic....

Once I figured out where I was supposed to go from the fate portal (I'm still struggling with navigation, but it was my first day so I'm still optimistic ), someone was already there waiting for me and ready to answer all my questions. That made it extremely easy for me but what if they hadn't been available or weren't online at the time? Then I really would have been stranded with no idea what to do, what files I needed to read (I hadn't come across GNT in the help file list yet). A transition from the fate portal into this automated initiation could be a good resource in such a situation. I think as long as it's optional and its existance is made boldly obvious, quite a few novices would benefit from it.

Yes, the automation should start from the Portal of Fate on a time delay if noone turns it off, or something. So, if there is noone around or if everyone is busy with a war or something, the novice will be trained by the automatic system, but if there's someone there, they turn off the automation, and train the novice themselves.

I wouldn't want the automation to be at the level of starting it at the portal of fates and just letting them get trained. More like the initiation process would be a means of shortcutting around lengthy, repetitive monologues.

If the novice completes it, they might get an automatic 5 hour promotion (and you could boost novice time up to 30 hours if its a problem).