Only time you have to seriously worry about clotting:
1. Whoring desert smudge/cudgel. Yes, you will run out of mana, even if you don't surge. Assuming we live long enough.
2. You are sapped. If this sticks, you're dead anyway.

I wouldn't surge, simply because we do crap damage, but it doesn't make you seriously vulnerable like it does against a guardian/wiccan.

And just cause no one brought it up, other than knight vs knight, we have NO way to dodge parry, riposte, block, etc etc any magic attack. The things we can do is a) kill you or trans magic and hope for the best. If you could just absorb damage from mages/guardians and not take any, that would be a different story. As is, I find myself swinging up to 4 or 5 times trying to figure out where's she's blocking and parrying, and how she's stanced. Maximize your skills, learn to use them effectively, and stfu.

And when you find an opening, many many many people will fall over dead. It's not so much about figuring out how they're stancing/parrying so much as where there's a spot to stick your pointies in.

Really, if it's only apparently useful against warriors, and against them you can dodge/parry/riposte/block anyway, why have it?

really, if its only useful against warriors, why do you care?

Because I believe otherwise. I'm trying to understand your point of view on this.

I never said it was only useful vs warriors, I was relating to the fact that mages/guardians can avoid damage from warriors, while he cannot do the same

It has been said that it's useless against Mages, Druids, Guardians, and Wiccans, and gets you killed faster. Is that true, or not?

Yea you can. You can shield. I do it all of the time, and it is very effective against most mage/guardian damage attacks. Not like you have to worry about them spending 2 power bypassing your shield.

Alright, I'll concede that arguement to Geb. Im done here, argue what you want Sylphas, most the time your arguements are rather unfounded, save for a few. I'll just stop reading forums for a bit, as all it does is make me want to hurt people IG, which is bad

I did go Mugwump on the test server, and I did kick ass. Do you know why I didn't on the real lusternia? Because I can't afford another 1500 odd credits for a forestal warrior, because it would no way in hell would ever fit into Asarnil's RP.

Does anyone else ever remember Terenas like killing everyone as a Merian Serenguard with Moon? I do... and you know, it was only possible because he could surge!

Honestly, I try to argue with valid points. When people dismiss things out of hand and get angry about it, it makes it harder to actually have a discussion and not just have two sides in a standoff.

I sincerely don't get some of the reasons given as to why Surge isn't too good. Is it that you think you should be able to play as any race and be at least decent, or that you honestly believe that you need the massive amounts of health?

Massive amounts of health is the main reason to go warrior. Without it we wouldn't be as effective at tanking or being able to bash the higher levelled mobs as efficiently.

Yes, I agree. But this is the only realm where you can massive amounts of health as any race. For most races, low con is a drawback to their other skills and stats. Warriors can bypass this. Warriors normally have huge health by picking more melee races, with higher con and strength. I believe that being able to bypass this throws things a bit out of whack.

Why is it that people can be any race and be good? It should make sense. Things like surge balance out the lower int races with the high level of resistance and health with the higher int races with low resistance and health. It just gives them a somewhat more level playing field. And health is such a varied factor. Yeah, a merian with surge at level 70 is going to have just as much health as say an igasho, or at least close, but that merian is going to go down way faster, as he doesnt have the cutting resistance, health regen, and general low-int race tankiness. Also, that merian is going to be far less weak against guardians with amissio or mana drain kills, and wont need to surge, whereas the tae'dae is in big trouble regardless if surged or not, he can go down in a few ammissios. And then you have to figure in group combat. If Im a Merian who relies on surge to survive against warriors, with my group, versus another group of say 2 fighters and a guardian, what do ya do? Surge to stay alive against the warriors, putting yourself at risk to mana kill, or dont surge, and get pwned by the warriors. It's really no contest that surge is a great skill, but it helps us survive, as our main methods of hindering involve wounding, and we dont have the entourage or demon or angel or demesne sitting their holding you back. people claim mages are to weak, but thats because they opt for incredible attack speed in exchange for health. You could make a viable igasho warrior, keeping his intel pretty high with blessings/spheres/etc, and have the added tankiness against warriors, with only a -1 eq, plus the herb efficiency. So its really all a question of whats more valuable to you, cudgeling me for an extra 200 every few seconds, or having an extra 1000-2000 health. As it is, 85% of the time I fight unsurged, against warriors or not. Surges main benefit comes into play against large groups of mobs, or when fighting in group combat when you have murphy xenthos and 3 people webbing you while you sit there and tank. Didnt mean to snap earlier, had more OOC crap going on than anything else. Hope I cleared up my viewing on surge, I say leave it, and in all reality I dont see divine touching this skill, but thats just me

Well, that brings up another matter entirely, assuming you truly can fight with an Igasho Mage/Druid. And with Sap, I suppose you could. What then is the point of anyone playing a low con/high int race? Mugwump will be good for speed, but things like High Elfen, or to a lesser extent Merian, are very subpar.

What's next Sylphas, transmute? Consciousness? Adrenaline?

Constitution is the easiest stat to raise to rather incredible levels. Health is really something that can be raised easily. Herofete, tosha, constitution food, yello, weathering. thats a raise of 3 or 4 con + 20% health and mana. So high int low con races are perfectly viable.

I need to figure out what stops adrenaline actually, because since my offence revolves around aeon and nothing I have (that I know of) stops them from curing it it's kind of a bugger. Guess I still have stupidity if I get lucky with darkmoon.

Well adrenaline used to work off balance/eq, now it doesnt, not quite sure if it uses it though......... so should be a bit easier with your aeon