Firstly, this post was sparked by the recent complaints about worldburn in raiding. However, those posts made me ponder about the order system as a whole. Now I'll state this off bluntly: I'm NOT qualified to make a full judgement on this topic, though it won't stop me from my opinions and ideas. Instead, I created this to spark debate by people who ARE qualified.

From how I gather, the Order system, the shrines, the powers involved, and essense for a Diety, have been pretty much pulled into Lusternia from the other IRE games. The thing is, Lusternia has proven to be a MUCH more hostile environment than other games (nowadays perhaps not so nervewrackingly combative, but still hostile). Unlike other games where cities bicker, argue, but mostly let each other live, Lusternia's nations want each other to DIE, absolutely and completely.

Now, that's not truly a bad thing in itself. However, the different lifestyle makes us use old standing powers in new ways. Thus I turn to ask this of people who have worked deeply within Orders: is it out of sync with our world?

I'm not just talking about worldburn here. There was a comment made that no one realy uses any of the other powers. Are they actualy useful or do they need updating/changing. Is there a real use for worldburn or is it realy just a 'griefing tool'? Is the matter of essence working well with the extremes of Lusternia? Does the whole thing need an overhall or is it working out fine?

I wish I could answer those questions myself, but I'm an outsider: I've only been in an Order once for about a few weeks (my last moments in Achaea) though I've fought for and against Orders quite oftain (had an entire order after my head once, it was fun in a twisted way). Still, I'm curious, so if you are or have been deeply involved in an Order, please comment.

Thanks, and sorry for yet another long post.

AAAHHHH! The dieties burn my eyes.

Lisaera has stated that an overhaul of Orders will occur sometime in the future.

The only IRE game I ever utilised order powers on was Imperian. And that was so my Akrabi monk could get his endurance back faster to go and kill a few hundred more locusts, or to worldburn some shrine raiders. To be honest, Worldburn is one of those skills where its going to decimate the offenders, or they will just laugh as it scratches them and they walk slowly out of the area of effect. All the other order powers are rarely useful, unless its a war of attrition and you expect your opponents and you to be sitting within the shrine influence for a huge amount of time. I haven't really been on much since they changed all the Order Powers so I don't know how the new system works - but the shrines system has needed a huge overhaul since Sarapis introduced it after destroying the golden age of Golden Shrine defilement.

Imperian actually changed all their shrine powers quite some time ago.

They had skills to see who had defiled recently, to go to shrines, to travel between shrines, obviously the regeneration skills, all sorts of things. A whole heap of new skills were implemented, and each divine Order chose (or their God did if S/He wasn't so inclined as to ask) the skills that they would use.

It was actually quite brilliant.

Hopefully the eventual upgrades here will be something like that.

(And hopefully Estarra will fix Auseklis' Order for me at the time so I don't get stuck with an antiquated one! Cause I'm not really thinking Auseklis is coming back now )

I'm actually curious to see if the shrine power: Mass... actually works here since we you know... don't have mass salve, etc.

I'm not overly qualified either... But it seems to me that an interesting way of setting up orders, would be to have it so shrines have certain powers, defencive and protective, etc... But then I think it would be cool if each order had a completely unique skillset associated with it, devised by the orders Deity, and the skill would increase in level, not due to lessons spent in it, but in the Divines judgement of you... This would be something that would sort of replace Divine favours, and instead of the Divine favour, yoru Divine would increase your skilllevel in your Order skills... Kind of like a priesthood for each of the Orders. I dunno... It just seems like a much more in depth and much more interesting RP idea to me... the Order skillsets would be more powerfull than usual skills, and the increases would have to be given sparingly, so that the only real way to get to trans would be to follow the same divine for decades and slowly accumulate skills... Making it so that the more faithfull you are, the more powerfull you become by that Divines will...

The shrines would be used something like this:

Essence gathering would pretty much stay the same... I think that rather than going to the Elder God though, it should be aloted to the Mortal that provides it, making it something like the Orders 'Power'. Similar to nexus power. The essence would be used in any and all of the Order based skills. If the mortal doesn't have enough essence, or whatever you want to call it... Faith might be a better label... The mortal wouldn't be able to caste the spell or use the skills.

The Elder Gods would still be religious figures, the same as always, this would just give them a more localized system of leadership. All of their abilities to wield their divine powers would remain the same... Perhaps the more faith in them giving them more power to wield on a whole.

Some of the more general skills in the various skillsets would be:

Scrying abilities

Travel abilities

Defences (These would need to be signifigant, not small things, and they should be higher up in the skillset)

Combat skills (Again, not weak, but powerfull skills, making any faithfull Order member someone to be feared and respected... This would rely on the various gods using extreme discretion in allowing people to advance within Orders, but would mean that anyone who gained such a level as to be dangerous with their Order powers would be someone to be seriously respected for obvious reasons, as they would have had to accomplish a lot to gain that much appreciation from their god)

The highest level skills would need to be something very focused around the upper echelon knowledge and philosophy of their Gods alignments and whims, making all of these skills quite powerfull, quite expensive in faith power, and very unique (Adding to the RP factor of the Orders existence)


In short, I would like to see Orders take on a MUCH larger part of Lusternia, seeing as so much of lusternia is based around the various gods personalities, and is in fact oriented around the ascention to godhood, we should really celebrate this difference between Lusternia and the other IRE realms.

Ooh, order overhaul. They shouldn't've dissolved ours!

They'll probably dissolve mine, at the rate things are going. I haven't heard from Auseklis since the start of May

I would suggest one method of changing orders is to replace the karma system (not avenger) by a religious-driven system that provides the same benefits. Priests of certain divine would be able to grant blessings and curses, depending on the devotion shown by those who offer to the God or on sacrileges demonstrated against the God or his faithful. Maybe some of these blessings would be unique to a particular divinity, and some curses as well.

In the transition, a few deficiencies could be made up for in the blessing/curse system, as well as making it a little more robust and role-immersive. It might also help stop the disfavour/favour action from being the only recourse for slight punishments. Instead, they could be reserved for direct affronts to the Divinity themself, and not just harming the organizations they patron.

I'd actually like to see a lot of the stat changes from blessings (+2 int, +2 cha) lost, and more blessings like the others implemented. I think there are far too many ways to raise stats as it is.

It's been said elsewhere, but probably bears repeating here.

A lot of people, us included, have been looking forward to the order overhaul.

It is not a high priority on the list of things to do, as it stands, because there are a few other things that need to be taken care of first.

When the overhaul happens, it'll happen.

If I give you a cookie, will you bring Auseklis back?

I don't want an overhaul if I can have Auseklis back

If it was within my power to bring Auseklis back, he would have been back long since. I know Estarra feels the same.

Sorry Bau, but at least you're not alone in missing him.

You just miss playing hide-and-seek with Moon in His beard, s'all.

AUSEKLIS NEWS #19
Date: 4/5/2005 at 10:15
From: Auseklis, the First Wanderer
To : Everyone
Subj: a present

As I am going travelling for some time, I thought I'd give you all a
present. Happy shrine building!

Penned by my hand on the 18th of Dioni, in the year 114 CE.

(Lots of rank was given out).

AUSEKLIS NEWS #23
Date: 5/4/2005 at 14:01
From: Auseklis, the First Wanderer
To : Everyone
Subj: re: shrines
(stuff)
Penned by my hand on the 10th of Tzarin, in the year 116 CE.


Last we ever heard from Him. Some time, he says. Some time....

Well, a God's notion of "some time" isn't ours...

Least you got ranks.. Magnagorans defile whatever shrine they want and all I can do is stare.

4/5 and 5/4... coincidence? I think not!

I got so confused reading that before when I was posting them! Cause here in Aus, they should be 5/4 and 4/5, so I kept saying them the right way in my head, then it looked like they were in the wrong order and....

I miss my tree-wielding Father.

I remember the first time I saw him. I just fell out of my chair when I noticed "He is wielding a giant tree in His left hand." Or something along those lines anyway.