I would like to suggest that it be impossible to sanctify or defile a shrine with gold. As is, you can basically dust a shrine in 15 seconds with a group. You can then immediately raise a shrine to full power in the same time.

It takes aproximately 100 Astral corpse to defile a shrine. It takes 100,000 gold to defile a shrine.

However, you can defile with 5,000 gold at a time whereas you can only defile with 1 corpse at a time. Furthermore, it is far easier for some such as a city/commune to pull 200k gold to dust/sanctify that it is for anyone to get 200 astral corpses.

I think this would make shrines a more "long term" establishment. They could still be defiled and defiled easier in groups. However, it would require a lot of prep... and wouldn't be nearly as easy.

Only if worldburn is changed/removed, because otherwise it would be nigh unstoppable.

I agree with this.

Wrong. If you wanted to stop worldburn in an area, you should have a shrine of one of your gods there.

Worldburn should give the defenders a distinct advantage, but it shouldn't make raiding impossible. Have it deal damage equivalent or double that of extra-planar discretionary powers, slow regeneration, and attack with afflictions determined by the order using worldburn. Scabies for Fain, maybe, and justice aura for Hajamin... just examples, of course. It would sort of be like a specialized demesne, giving the defenders a hand but not doing the job for them.

Worldburn spans a grand total of a four (or is it five?) room radius. It doesn't make raiding impossible. It makes raiding impossible in small spaces

So THAT is how those shrines are poping up. It sounds like a good idea, but Guido has a point: a raiding group can work hard to prepare for a shrine with lots of corpses, then charge in and plant it..say, wait until they can gather 100 astral corpses (just work with me here: if that number's impossible just replace it with some 'hard to get but possible' number). The defenders would have to suffer until they can summon the same amount of effort to get those same 100 corpses, especialy if Astral is redrained in the process.

Perhaps we can put the idea on hold for now: make shrine powers not so much a pain in the :censored: and then remove the ability to defile/sanc with gold.

Give people more reason to drain Astral. No

Just remove the ability to erect a shrine on territory you are enemied to.

Sound's sensible, though perhaps we should come up with a way of having whole orders enemied to territories. That would be funny .

"You beseech the power of Fain to create a monument in His glory. Alas, the furrikin farmer beside you objects and the ritual fails."

A furrikin farmer says, "REQUEST DENIED."

Furball with pitchfork > Elder Gods.

So if I get a pitchfork will you lift your refusal to let me be a vernal?

Hmm. You're still not female. Work on that.

I'll get back to you on that one, m'Lord.

I've heard you worked wonders for Kariol...

I'd be a Kick ass Vernal!

Wonder if I can pay a forging trademaster to make me a pitchfork. *bothers Shinza*

Some iron tits, too?