Unknown2005-09-28 20:38:04
This is a blog I posted earlier today, after leaving my Composition class, having to deal with a large quantity of curiousities and ideas rolling around in my head. It ended up being a rather complete and intelligable piece, if I do say so.
I'm curious as to people's various stances, on all things touched, however briefly. I'm sure a quick Google search will relay a copy of King's piece (it's only twelve short paragraph's long, and an interesting theory on human thoughts and desires). My piece covers a broader spectrum, ranging from the concept of death, a soul, a slight morbid fascination with public lynchings, and to the existance of god and fate.
This is far from a finished copy - I intend to revise it a few times, and then turn it in for my Comp class. I also am contemplating a place to insert a few paragraphs on the subject of BDSM, artistic mutilation, and pain in general. And then another few paragraphs to respond in full to King's belief that civilization is founded, perhaps comprised of, emotions such as love, friendship, loyalty, kindness - while those we feed and keep locked away are the antithesis of civilization, and thus the purpose of horror movies - to feed those dark, horrid and shameful feelings, and then to lock them up again.
For my personal amusement, the blog title is "Death, Public Lynchings, Sadistic Pleasures and Morbid Fascinations. Oh, and God too."
I'm curious as to people's various stances, on all things touched, however briefly. I'm sure a quick Google search will relay a copy of King's piece (it's only twelve short paragraph's long, and an interesting theory on human thoughts and desires). My piece covers a broader spectrum, ranging from the concept of death, a soul, a slight morbid fascination with public lynchings, and to the existance of god and fate.
This is far from a finished copy - I intend to revise it a few times, and then turn it in for my Comp class. I also am contemplating a place to insert a few paragraphs on the subject of BDSM, artistic mutilation, and pain in general. And then another few paragraphs to respond in full to King's belief that civilization is founded, perhaps comprised of, emotions such as love, friendship, loyalty, kindness - while those we feed and keep locked away are the antithesis of civilization, and thus the purpose of horror movies - to feed those dark, horrid and shameful feelings, and then to lock them up again.
For my personal amusement, the blog title is "Death, Public Lynchings, Sadistic Pleasures and Morbid Fascinations. Oh, and God too."
QUOTE
I was reading a piece by Stephen King, called "Why We Crave Horror Movies". In it, he quite clearly states his opinion - all of us are insane. Varying degrees does come into play - we have "Jack the Ripper" and "Ted Bundy" at one end of the spectrum, and then the unfounded and rediculous fear of, say, spiders. Or water. Yet, he touches on a subject that struck a question in my class - he writes that, "one critic has suggested that if pro football has become the voyuer's version of combat, then the horror film has become the modern version of the public lynching." An interesting idea - one King obviously shares. In the previous paragraph, King writes that, one of the main reasons we go to horror movies is to have fun. He writes that this is a "very peculiar sort of fun," and goes on to say it "comes from seeing others menaced - sometimes killed."
My Composition teacher then went on to proclaim that it was a sadistic pleasure, this sort of fun. I cannot refute this - no, I must concur. A sadist in my own right, I have shared this strange desire for "fun". The conversation continued, where she began to say we cannot do these sorts of things - and how few people would go to a public lynching.
Now, my teacher is, of course, welcome to her own opinion. Indeed, at first glance a public lynching is a horrible thought. But these are the concepts of a "proper" person - as Stephen King later describes them, "civilized". I wondered on this for naught but a moment, before realizing I would indeed attend a public lynching. After a brief quizing of various friends, most responded with abject horror - no moral person would attend what they felt was paramount to murder. Others responded with what I thought to be an archaic response and concept - honor. They would attend, for one should always watch what he and his fellows has wrought. If one cannot be willing to pull the floor from beneath a man on the gallows, they should have no right to condem him to death. A fair and honorable outlook, all must agree.
Now, this is where my sadistic nature comes into play. Thankfully, I was not asked if I would attend a public lynching, nor why. This question would have recieved a response that, like much of my inner most thoughts, would achieve a horrible squeal of disgust, causing those around me to repulse indignantly. I would go to watch, for it would be, as Stephen King put it, "fun".
I wonder, now, what it would be like to look in someone's eyes as the life is snuffed out. I imagine it would do one of two things - I would either find it disgusting and leave, or I would be entranced. Entranced that life, no matter how long or short a period of time it has gone on, and it's experiences, it's actions, deeds, virtues and vices, is so easily snuffed out; or perhaps I will find it to be something of even GREATER interest - by greater I mean of a more etheric concept, or that of a 'soul'. Would I see some spiritual flame inside their eyes, revealed in the final moments of life? A soul that would be so horribly wrenched from a body, or perhaps simply extinguished, like a candle. As though the rope around their neck would be the equivilant of my forefinger and thumb, calloused tips pressed against a burning wick. When removed, all that remains would be a few smoldering embers, and a long trail of thick, whispy black smoke.
So, this is what I am wondering, now. Do we honestly have a soul? Or are we nothing more than trillions of microscopic cells, working together in unision to form muscles, organs, and in the end a body - something so complicated that we, the end result, cannot begin to comprehend our beginning, or the process in which we got here?
I was never one to like the book, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. However, it posed an interesting question - What is the meaning of life? A computer spent many, many centuries contemplating this, and came up with the end result of 42. However, after so much contemplation and work, it had forgotten the method at which the answer had been concieved. I've always lent my belief to this - we are simply the end result of a process we cannot wholely understand. In some parts, yes, it is simple. But as a whole, we've yet to understand the method in which we are continueing life.
Since the dawn of man, we've often given ourself to the belief of gods or spirits guiding all things - from the early Sumarians believing in gods and goddesses such as Ishtar, to the Greeks with the Olympian Gods, believing all things were done according to a pattern, or weave - the Tapestry of the Fates. This belief was shared with the Romans, whom adopted the Greek gods. The Egyptians had Ma'at, or Divine Right. It was a little less restrictive - they believed the Pharoah ruled by Fate, and that this spirit, Ma'at, would tell the Pharoah how to rule. If an error were to occur, it was not the Pharoah's fault, oh no - it's Ma'at. Kalvinists, a christian sect, believe that all thing happen according to God's Will - all things. A child is born homosexual not because of the Devil or some corruption in it's upbringing, but because God has made it so. I found this to be interesting, yet still does not answer my question as to why. Many Eastern religions share the belief in a Wheel, which would weave the tapestry of fate according to a predetermined pattern. There is small gaps between these threads of existance, allowing people to make many small changes here and there, but in the end, all shall fall into this Divine Will. Some Native American people believed our spirits lingered long after death, running and hunting in the afterlife. This was shared by the greeks and romans, in the concept of the Elysian Fields.
I have oft contemplated the existance of a god - or perhaps many gods. Christians will swear to me their god is the sole god, and no other exists. An interesting concept, given the world's three largest religions follow the same diety. Christians (this includes Catholics, Lutherans, Kalvins, Baptists, Ana-Baptists, Mormons, etc), Judeaism, and Muslims. They all follow Yahwey, or Allah. The Christians do not give Him a name, simply refer to Him as God. I have oft been approached about my failure to believe in their deity - I have become so tired of the various excuses they have (all of which tend to lead back into the all-necompassing statement that one must have Faith), I have begun countering with a simple question and answer - "Why do you believe that your god is the sole god, and no other exists? No, do not say your answer aloud - we both already know it. And this is how I know your god does not exist."
As I wrap this rambling up, I leave you with this question -
Is this so wrong? To want to see the ending of someone's life, solely for the sake of seeing the ending of someone's life?
My Composition teacher then went on to proclaim that it was a sadistic pleasure, this sort of fun. I cannot refute this - no, I must concur. A sadist in my own right, I have shared this strange desire for "fun". The conversation continued, where she began to say we cannot do these sorts of things - and how few people would go to a public lynching.
Now, my teacher is, of course, welcome to her own opinion. Indeed, at first glance a public lynching is a horrible thought. But these are the concepts of a "proper" person - as Stephen King later describes them, "civilized". I wondered on this for naught but a moment, before realizing I would indeed attend a public lynching. After a brief quizing of various friends, most responded with abject horror - no moral person would attend what they felt was paramount to murder. Others responded with what I thought to be an archaic response and concept - honor. They would attend, for one should always watch what he and his fellows has wrought. If one cannot be willing to pull the floor from beneath a man on the gallows, they should have no right to condem him to death. A fair and honorable outlook, all must agree.
Now, this is where my sadistic nature comes into play. Thankfully, I was not asked if I would attend a public lynching, nor why. This question would have recieved a response that, like much of my inner most thoughts, would achieve a horrible squeal of disgust, causing those around me to repulse indignantly. I would go to watch, for it would be, as Stephen King put it, "fun".
I wonder, now, what it would be like to look in someone's eyes as the life is snuffed out. I imagine it would do one of two things - I would either find it disgusting and leave, or I would be entranced. Entranced that life, no matter how long or short a period of time it has gone on, and it's experiences, it's actions, deeds, virtues and vices, is so easily snuffed out; or perhaps I will find it to be something of even GREATER interest - by greater I mean of a more etheric concept, or that of a 'soul'. Would I see some spiritual flame inside their eyes, revealed in the final moments of life? A soul that would be so horribly wrenched from a body, or perhaps simply extinguished, like a candle. As though the rope around their neck would be the equivilant of my forefinger and thumb, calloused tips pressed against a burning wick. When removed, all that remains would be a few smoldering embers, and a long trail of thick, whispy black smoke.
So, this is what I am wondering, now. Do we honestly have a soul? Or are we nothing more than trillions of microscopic cells, working together in unision to form muscles, organs, and in the end a body - something so complicated that we, the end result, cannot begin to comprehend our beginning, or the process in which we got here?
I was never one to like the book, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. However, it posed an interesting question - What is the meaning of life? A computer spent many, many centuries contemplating this, and came up with the end result of 42. However, after so much contemplation and work, it had forgotten the method at which the answer had been concieved. I've always lent my belief to this - we are simply the end result of a process we cannot wholely understand. In some parts, yes, it is simple. But as a whole, we've yet to understand the method in which we are continueing life.
Since the dawn of man, we've often given ourself to the belief of gods or spirits guiding all things - from the early Sumarians believing in gods and goddesses such as Ishtar, to the Greeks with the Olympian Gods, believing all things were done according to a pattern, or weave - the Tapestry of the Fates. This belief was shared with the Romans, whom adopted the Greek gods. The Egyptians had Ma'at, or Divine Right. It was a little less restrictive - they believed the Pharoah ruled by Fate, and that this spirit, Ma'at, would tell the Pharoah how to rule. If an error were to occur, it was not the Pharoah's fault, oh no - it's Ma'at. Kalvinists, a christian sect, believe that all thing happen according to God's Will - all things. A child is born homosexual not because of the Devil or some corruption in it's upbringing, but because God has made it so. I found this to be interesting, yet still does not answer my question as to why. Many Eastern religions share the belief in a Wheel, which would weave the tapestry of fate according to a predetermined pattern. There is small gaps between these threads of existance, allowing people to make many small changes here and there, but in the end, all shall fall into this Divine Will. Some Native American people believed our spirits lingered long after death, running and hunting in the afterlife. This was shared by the greeks and romans, in the concept of the Elysian Fields.
I have oft contemplated the existance of a god - or perhaps many gods. Christians will swear to me their god is the sole god, and no other exists. An interesting concept, given the world's three largest religions follow the same diety. Christians (this includes Catholics, Lutherans, Kalvins, Baptists, Ana-Baptists, Mormons, etc), Judeaism, and Muslims. They all follow Yahwey, or Allah. The Christians do not give Him a name, simply refer to Him as God. I have oft been approached about my failure to believe in their deity - I have become so tired of the various excuses they have (all of which tend to lead back into the all-necompassing statement that one must have Faith), I have begun countering with a simple question and answer - "Why do you believe that your god is the sole god, and no other exists? No, do not say your answer aloud - we both already know it. And this is how I know your god does not exist."
As I wrap this rambling up, I leave you with this question -
Is this so wrong? To want to see the ending of someone's life, solely for the sake of seeing the ending of someone's life?
Ceres2005-09-28 21:11:31
Drivel.
I'm going to bed, but will post a proper response tomorrow.
If I remember.
I'm going to bed, but will post a proper response tomorrow.
If I remember.
Unknown2005-09-28 21:13:48
QUOTE(Ceres @ Sep 28 2005, 04:11 PM)
Drivel.
I'm going to bed, but will post a proper response tomorrow.
If I remember.
I'm going to bed, but will post a proper response tomorrow.
If I remember.
194678
Wow, one complete sentence in all of that. Maybe two. But I don't think "If I remember" constitutes a full sentence.
Sylphas2005-09-28 21:22:49
It's not, it's a fragment. It has no subject or verb, it's just a floating dependent clause floating around with nothing to hang onto. Ceres needs to learn the proper use or commas to delineate these, instead of using periods.
Corr2005-09-28 22:57:27
I'm sure the adrenaline rush from fear has nothing to do with watching horror movies.
If its ever wrong to watch or enjoy something, I think random death is one of them.
If its ever wrong to watch or enjoy something, I think random death is one of them.
Unknown2005-09-28 23:00:24
QUOTE(Corr @ Sep 28 2005, 05:57 PM)
I'm sure the adrenaline rush from fear has nothing to do with watching horror movies.
If its ever wrong to watch or enjoy something, I think random death is one of them.
If its ever wrong to watch or enjoy something, I think random death is one of them.
194740
Why? And by what morals/ideals/concepts are you basing it is 'wrong'? Public lynchings were a source of entertainment until very recently. In fact, it was done quite commonly in the South.
Sylphas2005-09-28 23:14:56
QUOTE(Corr @ Sep 28 2005, 06:57 PM)
If its ever wrong to watch or enjoy something, I think random death is one of them.
194740
This could very well be right, especially if you believe in immutable good and evil. However, until very recently, in the history of the world, public executions were huge events, people came out to picnic, and brought their small children to watch. No one thought it was evil or wrong, and even the most upstanding and moral people attended.
Athana2005-09-28 23:23:24
I actually hate watching horror movies and seeing deaths. However, I think it's more because they scare me, and that isn't a sensation I enjoy feeling rather than because I think it's immoral to observe.
Richter2005-09-28 23:27:54
I posted something here that was intended to be a message, I didn't realize I had actually quoted it.
Post and reply removed, my apologies.
Post and reply removed, my apologies.
Corr2005-09-28 23:33:30
QUOTE(Ye of Little Faith @ Sep 28 2005, 11:00 PM)
Why? And by what morals/ideals/concepts are you basing it is 'wrong'? Public lynchings were a source of entertainment until very recently. In fact, it was done quite commonly in the South.
194742
I need to stop using the word 'IF' people seem to have forgotten what it means.
First you have to ask yourself if witnessing or watching anything is ever a bad or wrong thing to do. If No, then the original question is mute. If Yes, then that would be at the top of the list.
Using the example of people in the past, you would have to first show that they found watching things as anything wrong.
As for my sarcastic comment that was obviously lost...
Fear leads to adrenaline, enough adrenaline leads to happiness. If Fear with the loss of real danger still gives you enough adrenaline and does not give you other negetive feelings, then watching a horror movie will lead to feelings of happiness. I think it has little to nothing to do with any sort of inner pyscho or any other attribute you wish to stick on people who watch horror movies.
Its the same reason some people enjoy scary rollercoasters, or jumping out of planes.
I'm also curious as to which form of logical reasoning would bring a person to believe in multiple gods, unless your wishing to just have semantic debates. Its really a 1 or 0 type of thing.
edit: As for people watching public executions. That was not random death, those people went out to see the results of justice or the long arm of the law, or some other reason. It was never just some random guy getting executed.
Sylphas2005-09-29 00:40:13
QUOTE(Corr @ Sep 28 2005, 07:33 PM)
I'm also curious as to which form of logical reasoning would bring a person to believe in multiple gods, unless your wishing to just have semantic debates. Its really a 1 or 0 type of thing.
194768
You're kidding, right? The same logic that leads one to believe in one god or goddess easily leads one to believe in multiple gods or goddesses.
Raezon2005-09-29 06:57:22
The reference to the Hitchhiker's Guide is incorrect. The computer didn't forget, it merely decided that it had to come up with the answer to the most important question in life. Then they built earth to come up with that most important question. I'd remove the reference since it kind of destroys any attempt to create a sense of "academic" enlightenment, at least for anyone that's read the book.
Shikari2005-09-29 08:15:03
You appear to raise several questions, which I will deal with separately. Firstly, it would seem, you want to know why people enjoy horror movies. Secondly, you appear to question the validity of your desire to attend a 'public lynching'. Thirdly, you express a desire to see someone die, with a view to see if there is anything particularly special about the moment of death itself. Fourth, you question the existence of souls, and finally, you get into the age-old discussion about a 'higher power' or 'guiding intelligence'.
To answer your first question - humans have a desire to be entertained. Most film and for that matter writing entertains us by allowing us to ignore our own lives for a time, in order to immerse ourselves in a 'story'. If that story was boring - for instance, about someone that washed the dishes – there would have been no point in spending the effort hearing/reading/observing it unfold. Something must happen to the protagonist or be caused to happen by the protagonist, be that comedic, or violent, or dramatic – horror is simply a name given to a style of story, one which is ‘scary’
As for your second question, I have quite serious concerns about the way (perhaps subconsciously) that you've phrased that. A lynching is an execution without due process, usually by a mob. What that means in layman’s terms is that a group of people find someone that they don't like, and kill them. This sort of behaviour varies from the murders of African-American civil rights activists (US) through to genocide (far too many instances to count), where entire groups are treated in such a manner. Hangings of criminals, on the other hand (such as those at Tyburn in England) did indeed provide public entertainment at one point in history - however, social morals have moved on from those times. Just as we no longer take Christians and feed them to lions or make them fight each other, as the Romans did, most of the world's countries no longer hang people publicly. Why? Because it's morally repulsive.
Watching someone die, contrary to what is shown in the media and in drama, is not a particularly pleasant experience. My only answer to the third question that you ask is that it is something that I can't explain, but wish I'd never experienced.
The fourth question and the fifth are answerable depending on your beliefs. I am not going to get into any kind of theological argument on these forums – it would be wholly pointless, as religious or semi-religious discussions are best kept far away from places like this.
As for your statement that you’re considering submitting it as a piece, I have a single piece of advice. Don’t – the argument is hopelessly immature. What I mean by that is that it’s not been thought out or researched at all thoroughly, and while I hate to brand anyone or their work with a label, the word that springs to mind is ‘emo’.
To be specific - while King is a writer of horror novels (and not a particularly good one, at that, despite his sales), your argument would hold more weight if its basis was in more than a writer of modern pulp fiction.
You, and perhaps your Composition teacher, also misuse (I hope) the term sadist. My initial thought was that while masochist may be more appropriate to the situation you describe, it would appear that you misunderstand what sadism actually is. Sadism is a so-called paraphilia – a sexual response to a situation which can interfere with the possibility of reciprocated sexual activity. I hope very much that this was not intentional - if it was, I would suggest that you might like to talk to someone about this at some point - perhaps a priest of some form, as they will also be able to discuss the 'God' business with you.
I was also going to comment on the problems in bringing a book written as a science fiction comedy (Hitchhiker’s Guide) into a philosophical/moral discussion, but it would appear Raezon has beaten me to it. In this case, it's the equivalent of using the surgical scenes from ER as a guide to performing open heart surgery – not the best idea, really.
I'll cut it off at that. No apologies for length.
To answer your first question - humans have a desire to be entertained. Most film and for that matter writing entertains us by allowing us to ignore our own lives for a time, in order to immerse ourselves in a 'story'. If that story was boring - for instance, about someone that washed the dishes – there would have been no point in spending the effort hearing/reading/observing it unfold. Something must happen to the protagonist or be caused to happen by the protagonist, be that comedic, or violent, or dramatic – horror is simply a name given to a style of story, one which is ‘scary’
As for your second question, I have quite serious concerns about the way (perhaps subconsciously) that you've phrased that. A lynching is an execution without due process, usually by a mob. What that means in layman’s terms is that a group of people find someone that they don't like, and kill them. This sort of behaviour varies from the murders of African-American civil rights activists (US) through to genocide (far too many instances to count), where entire groups are treated in such a manner. Hangings of criminals, on the other hand (such as those at Tyburn in England) did indeed provide public entertainment at one point in history - however, social morals have moved on from those times. Just as we no longer take Christians and feed them to lions or make them fight each other, as the Romans did, most of the world's countries no longer hang people publicly. Why? Because it's morally repulsive.
Watching someone die, contrary to what is shown in the media and in drama, is not a particularly pleasant experience. My only answer to the third question that you ask is that it is something that I can't explain, but wish I'd never experienced.
The fourth question and the fifth are answerable depending on your beliefs. I am not going to get into any kind of theological argument on these forums – it would be wholly pointless, as religious or semi-religious discussions are best kept far away from places like this.
As for your statement that you’re considering submitting it as a piece, I have a single piece of advice. Don’t – the argument is hopelessly immature. What I mean by that is that it’s not been thought out or researched at all thoroughly, and while I hate to brand anyone or their work with a label, the word that springs to mind is ‘emo’.
To be specific - while King is a writer of horror novels (and not a particularly good one, at that, despite his sales), your argument would hold more weight if its basis was in more than a writer of modern pulp fiction.
You, and perhaps your Composition teacher, also misuse (I hope) the term sadist. My initial thought was that while masochist may be more appropriate to the situation you describe, it would appear that you misunderstand what sadism actually is. Sadism is a so-called paraphilia – a sexual response to a situation which can interfere with the possibility of reciprocated sexual activity. I hope very much that this was not intentional - if it was, I would suggest that you might like to talk to someone about this at some point - perhaps a priest of some form, as they will also be able to discuss the 'God' business with you.
I was also going to comment on the problems in bringing a book written as a science fiction comedy (Hitchhiker’s Guide) into a philosophical/moral discussion, but it would appear Raezon has beaten me to it. In this case, it's the equivalent of using the surgical scenes from ER as a guide to performing open heart surgery – not the best idea, really.
I'll cut it off at that. No apologies for length.
Flow2005-09-29 09:17:25
Beat me to it, Shik.
Though my post would have lacked the emoillience of yours.
Though my post would have lacked the emoillience of yours.