Yes, but Hexes without aeon is still not as great as Tarot in my opinion. I would think many Nihilists serious about fighting would continue to take Tarot. Celestines don’t count, since they are incapable of picking up hexes anyhow.

Aye, Tarot really sounds very good...but what Narsrim posted about Hex tests wasn't bad too, really. But you are right, Tarot is better useable, even for bashing. (Healing Tarot, I want thee...)

Uhoh...sounds weird....did you actually bug that? That doesn't really sound right...:/

Its right.

It's intentional. If you don't have night/crow, you can't flow in shadow territory (or regenerate in shadow forests). But you can flow/regenerate in normal forests!

Basically, it means our novices are ****.

Meh...that's not cool, really....

Quite a few Nihilists chose Hexes. Most choose Tarot though, that's true.

And Ashteru's right on this one, you can't compare Catacombs to Flow, why are you trying to impy otherwise? Two guilds get Flow by default and it's low in the skillset.

Considering availability, Flow is an "equivalent" of Via, not Catacombs.

Name 10 Nihilists who use Hexes. Given the size of guild, I imagine that's a very small amount... but I also imagine you will have trouble coming up with 10 active people with Hexes.

And as Dumihru posted earlier, it seems misplaced to compare Via with Flow.

Hell, boy, I still don't know my way, and I've lived there the whole time.

That's sad - I haven't been in Glomdoring for many OOC months, and I STILL know my way around.

Yes, I would. I would also have trouble coming up with 10 active people with Tarot, because:
1. I don't even know everyone's choice.
2. A lot of Nihilists don't actually fight.
3. Nihilists guild is not big like you seem to think (there's been an influx of members lately, but that's the case for every guild I imagine. And most of those new people are still newbies I suppose).

Anyway, I already said that probably most of us choose Tarot so why argue.

About Flow and Via.

Flow is in a basic skillset of two commune's guilds. Via is in a basic skillset of two city's guild. Both are a ways of transportation to another player. See the corelation? It's that simple, and that's what I was talking about.

Yes, they're definately not mirror copies and work differently (meaning Via is rather useless and Flow is very powerful ).

Comparing Flow to Catacombs though is just wrong, availability of those is completely different, on top of the way they work.

Dumihru's little evaluation is biased imho.

Demesne summon vs Flow.
- Demesne summon requires a demesne and a geomancer, owner of a demesne to be there. Costs power, high in the skillset, only he can use it.
- Two entire guilds can flow. Demesne is required, druid is not. Doesn't cost power.

Beckon vs Moonbeam.
- Beckon works only one room away, you need to be in an adjacent room. When it gets fixed it will be rather easily to protect from it. Kind of limiting I would say.
- Cannot protect from Moonbeam. You can move but it's not always the option. During battle, for example. It works area wide.

She also seemed to imply that Via is some ability we get on top of that, but it doesn't matter because fights don't happen on highways so it's useless.

Anyway, she was talking about how it works in a bigger picture really, so I'll just leave it as that.

It is not misplaced to compare Via with Flow. Such comparison is perfectly in place. It's just that they're not the same skill, so (supposedly), it's balanced somewhere else.
Question is where. And if it takes skills accessibility into account.

I dont actually know my way to some of those places...i should

Without trudging through the pages of Flow arguments, I'd just like to say that I wouldn't mind seeing a lot of the travel nerfed equally.

Lusternia is a rich, vast world that has essentially been compressed into one very small area. Why? Because almost anyone can get pretty much anywhere in under 20 seconds.

I'd love to see things like planar rifts and enchanted paintings become more worthwhile, so that they have a greater place in organisations' planning and defence.

EDIT: I just realised that might seem a little contradictory. But, things like rifts are set pathways, that won't take you right to the middle of what's happening, necessarily, especially if it is outside village defence. And, those things can be attacked, to a degree, giving another option in village vs village conflict that's not just raiding with no practical benefit.

I thought the argument that started it all was that Via was too weak? As such, why not just leave Flow as is (except MAYBE a way to make Manses better protected) and up the strenght of Via (Make it Urban, though not in enemy territory).

Will that do?

I picked Astrology for the RP, and nothing more. It suits the more scientific nature that Nokraenom goes for rather than flinging cards at people. Before I chose Astrology, I was a Tarot user. It was about 100x better than Astrology for combat.

The only Astrological skill I use on any regular basis, aside from the spheres for defenses, is the Aapek ray for Aeon (1/3rd of people, and none created on day 1).

Hexes is good, but would really only be picked over Tarot by a race with fast equilibrium recovery, like a Mugwump. Hexes has none of the utility skills that Tarot does (and neither does Astrology, for that matter, bar Astroglide. Astrosense is basically the same as Window, but in a format that's harder on the eyes.), and thus I would always recommend Tarot to anyone who isn't looking to play as a Mugwump or Furrikin Nihilist.

Basically, tarot is defensive, hexes is offensive, both are far better in their area than the other.

Hexes do not have an insta-kill though. Also, at a certain point in a character's development, hexes can be easily cured if not backed up with something else like aeon or choke. Tarot on the other hand goes nicely with Necromancy. It even gives the Necromancer a reason to use ectoplasm, contagion, and crucify. Hexes gain nothing from the use of those skills. So, for a necromancer, I would say Tarot is still superior to Hexes. The other archetypes do not count, since they either do not have Tarot as a choice (Wiccans) or Hexes as a choice (Celestines).

No offense, but you've got it entirely wrong. Tarot is mostly useless offensively against anyone able to cure aeon or keep up speed, aeon and soulless is all it has. Soulless takes 10 seconds to hit, with races tumbling in less than a second, or a shrink enchantment, you can always escape. All other cards are defensive, including hangedman.

If you think Tarot is more powerful offensively than Hexes for any guild, you just haven't fought a good hexer yet. Tarot has superior traveling and defensive abilities, but offensively it completely pales compared to Hexes. If a nihilist wants to kill people, he should pick Hexes, if he wants easy traveling and survival abilities, he should pick Tarot.

I disagree with you. Hexes do not give any means of killing on their own. They only allow for a lock, but still that lock can easily be removed if the person is not aeoned/choked and has focus mind. Without any way to maintain a lock, where will hexes lead a person? Nihilist do not have Aeon without the Tarot skill-set, so it is this archetype that I feel is better served going with Tarots.

Soulless from the Tarot skill-set is preferable in my mind, because a Nihilist who knows what he is doing can stack balance loss on you with the help of contagion, hangman, shackles, ectoplasm, and crucify. With enough balance loss stacked on a person, the person will not tumble away in time even with size one (Also remember that very few people have size 3 to 1). Also, from what I remember, I thought I heard soulless was on an 8.5-second timer.

You've never used tarot or hexes, but I can tell you there are people that will never die to Soulless in any situation or manner. While hexes makes for easier sacrifices, team assistance, damage kills and wracks, than Tarot can ever do.