Magical Travel: Last Envoy Review

by Estarra

Back to Common Grounds.

Narsrim2005-10-16 12:12:44
QUOTE(Ixion @ Oct 16 2005, 08:05 AM)
I find that funny coming from you who has only two tactics, aeon and lash/enlarge
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I've trapped you in aeon without using Hexes. Why should I bother with double whammies or allhexes when there is no need? I'm on a power budget, after all.
Unknown2005-10-16 14:16:13
QUOTE(munsia @ Oct 16 2005, 12:21 PM)
Thorgal why are you whining about beckon? Beckon was never suppose to go through walls, blocking, and doors to begin with. As hajamin said it was fixed.. Its been bugged for a very long time now and everyone just assumed it was an update even though it wasnt announced
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Shield prevents beckon too. sad.gif
Ethelon2005-10-16 14:36:56
Instead of this thread turning into an "inflate Narsrims Ego"-thread, let's get back on topic?

The changes to Beckon were needed, but I think General beckon being stopped by shield is slightly to much. If there were bugs in Flow and Wisp, I've never had them effect me or seen them, so this "fix" did nothing at all from my perspective, they both work as they always have.
Thorgal2005-10-16 14:40:33
Of course the changes to beckon were needed, it was just stupid the way it worked, but the announce looked a lot like there wouldn't be any real changes to Flow, Wisp or Via. If those three skills are getting actual changes, my whining will have been redundant and unnecessary.
Unknown2005-10-16 15:12:35
Wisp seems fine to me, for group tactics, you need a Druid(hartstone or blacktalon) and a Wiccan(Moondancer or Shadowdancer) and then once they get wisped you need walls up, or doors, or both, and most likely blocking too, so maybe 1 or 2 Warriors (Seren/Ebon guard

I would hope 4 commune members working together would be able to take on someone tongue.gif


As for the changes, the Gods said there were changes, so I'm saying there are as well, we just don't know if they were bug fixes, or what *shrug* Maybe we had a bug with a Gloomie able to from from seren-seren or something? dunno.gif
Unknown2005-10-16 16:09:04
Actually, all you really need is a wiccan with ice wall enchantments and maybe one or two random others to help deal out damage. You don't specifically need a druid; if the area is already forested you'll be fine without one, unless they start deforesting.
Lisaera2005-10-16 16:24:45
QUOTE(Thorgal @ Oct 16 2005, 03:40 PM)
Of course the changes to beckon were needed, it was just stupid the way it worked, but the announce looked a lot like there wouldn't be any real changes to Flow, Wisp or Via. If those three skills are getting actual changes, my whining will have been redundant and unnecessary.
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The changes that remain include changes to abilities that have already been changed. Does anyone actually use Via?
Thorgal2005-10-16 16:28:37
Exactly, that is the main reason it needs an overhaul. Via is the city's counterpart of Flow, which is probably the most used ability of Lusternia.
Unknown2005-10-16 16:39:01
Cities don't get flow, or anything like it.

Deal.
Sylphas2005-10-16 16:54:37
No, it really isn't. Via is similar only in that it is a certain terrain only movement skill. You WANT it to be the Flow equivalent, and I can't really fault you for that, but in it's current form, it's not.
Thorgal2005-10-16 17:03:19
Right, I see you still can't comprehend it.

Via: novice traveling ability.

Flow: novice traveling ability.

Via is Flow's counterpart, Flow is far stronger, hence Via needs a boost and Flow needs to not be so rediculously powerful in territory defence and escaping any kind of situation. But I'm glad they're working on it, maybe it'll get balanced afterall.

If the divine wouldn't want to balance Lusternia, they wouldn't have given the same archetypes to each city/commune, and countering quests to go with it. So I'm still holding hopes Lusternia's gameplay will become balanced for all organizations, one day.
Sylphas2005-10-16 17:14:07
No, they are almost completely differnent. Being a novice travelling ability is about all they have in common. You want that changed, good for you. But currently, they are quite different, and a change like you want would be making them into counterparts, not fixing them. Or are you trying to say that Tree totem and Puella are counterparts, because they're both novice healing abilities?
Unknown2005-10-16 17:14:30
Flow - forest ability that allows nature-worshippers a great advantage in the forests only. Ties in with multiple advantages that are restricted by environment.

Via - city travelling ability that helps shorten pilgrimages, NOT giving citizens the forestal advantage of being able to shift around their environment at will.

Demanding they be equal is silly, when they have different purposes.

...

Vines - web ONLY in forest, requires wielded item.

Web - web everywhere, no requirement.

...

Laetitia - Individual novice skill that allows vast advantage in influencing

Moonlight - Higher than adept skill that requires three mastered moondancers and still delivers almost nothing.
Penumbra - Very high group skill that requires multiple people and large amounts of power.

...

These two commune 'versions' are inferior, but that is simply because it is balanced in other areas. The differences aren't imbalances.
Thorgal2005-10-16 17:16:31
If you can find another novice traveling ability that could be used to give the cities the same sort of advantage you get with Flow, be my guest. My point is, it's easy changing Via to become equally useful as Flow, since both are low rank traveling abilities.. is this really so hard to understand, or are you purposely avoiding the point?
Unknown2005-10-16 17:19:14
Sure, just give our novices the same advantages in healing/chanting skills first. Then we can all be commities!
Thorgal2005-10-16 17:19:56
You're comparing the usefulness of Flow to that of Puella?

This whole thing wouldn't be an issue if Flow wouldn't have such an enormous impact.

What's so hard to understand that "differences" become enormous imbalances when they have large impacts on organizational offense or defence?
Unknown2005-10-16 17:22:52
QUOTE(Thorgal @ Oct 16 2005, 05:19 PM)
If you're comparing the usefulness of Puella with that of Flow, you're an idiot.
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No, I wasn't. I was comparing the usefulness of the city's Puella/Laetitia/Puer with our... well... we don't have any active novice healing skills.

Edit: Isn't that the issue you have? Making sure every novice skill has an equal opposite?
Sylphas2005-10-16 17:23:32
QUOTE(Thorgal @ Oct 16 2005, 01:16 PM)
If you can find another novice traveling ability that could be used to give the cities the same sort of advantage you get with Flow, be my guest. My point is, it's easy changing Via to become equally useful as Flow, since both are low rank traveling abilities.. is this really so hard to understand, or are you purposely avoiding the point?
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Why do they have to be equally useful? You have plenty of things that are more useful than ours. Give us Puella and Puer, and you can have Flow.

Really though, I'm not sure what the problem is understanding me. You can change Via however you want, I'm just tired of hearing it referred to as a Flow equivalent. It's a skill you'd like to a Flow equivalent, and which makes sense to be so. Subtle difference, but trying to cast it the way you do is an attempt to say "but of course Via should be the same as Flow, they're supposed to be equivalent," which isn't necessarily true. It may be, it might not be, but I'd be wary in assuming so, because if they were as close as you seem to think, it'd have been looked into before now.
Thorgal2005-10-16 17:23:59
Jesus momma, how old are you Elryn? Does puella, laetitia or puer have enormous impacts on organizational defence or offense?

And Sylphas, as I said before many times, with you apparently ignoring it many times, the only reason I use Via to compare Flow with, is because both are novice skills used to travel, and Via can be very easily used to balance to Flow, instead of making a whole new skill.
Unknown2005-10-16 17:25:07
QUOTE(Thorgal @ Oct 16 2005, 06:03 PM)


Flow: novice traveling ability.



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Erm.. Glommie novices CANNOT use flow as novices, even if they have the skill. They need the specialisation (Crow or Night I think) to use flow in tainted forest.. only problem -all- of Glomdoring is tainted, hence novices there cannot use it until they graduate and specialise. (Seren novices can use the skill however as Serenwilde is not tainted after all) sad.gif

Don't know if that was intended or not but it sure annoyed the hell out of me.