That's a silly question. I can flow 10 people to you instantly and 9 can attack. If 10 people flow individually, everyone has to wait 4 seconds before they can attack giving you plenty of time to move. It isn't a second or two.

Furthermore, a lot of people can't flow (entire Serenguard guild for example)

Let us wait for all the changes before resuming our whines?

One more! I miss a grove.

I'd like to have Groves now too. Grove Annihilate was my friend.

Ah, I haven't used my Seren alt since I made Jadryga... which is... long ago. Maybe a real year ago. I either never realised or forgot there is a 4 sec equi-balance thingy.

But ouch, that just rather compounds how powerful flow was in group combat.

I think the flow change is good. It was redicolous how people can be in one area and in another in an instant especailly when it means theres no chance for persuit.

The same can be said for magic map and hermit. If you say that these two werent used very often then you havent been fighting for very long. These two skills were very hard to stop and pretty much meant a guardian can raid and escape with very low risk. Of course now-a-days you dont really have that many very good Guardians and around 0 that actually raid so this little fact is not very evident. You dont reduce the effectivety of the forestals total escape skill without looking at these skills as well.

That being said I believe total escape skills shouldnt be that easy to execute. Its good that flowing to a person now doesnt mean total escape since they will still be in the same area. Its nice that magic map actually has a counter. Its great that hermit has a high restricting factor. All for the reason that before these changes, all of them meant the target gets away completely and at the same time was very hard to stop.

It's annoying how people are crying oh Serenwilde got nerfed. Escape skills in general got nerfed, its not like flow was the only skill that recieved a change. They were looked at as a whole and so far I think admin is doing a pretty good job assessing the balance between all of them.

Oh, I like the Catacombs change.

Yes, it does affect ours, but at least there is a way to stop it now, not like before, when we'd see the map go up and go NoOoOOOOOOoOooooo... and not be able to do anything.

Hermit... I don't know so much about that one, but the new change makes sense, in accordance with its name

Anyone see a trend. The people who just love this change... are all warriors. Even the guardians who didn't have flow seem to be able to see that destroying it was very much similar to destroying catacombs and as a result, we both now suffer.

Personally I dislike the change to flow. Not due to anything combat related, but because it was a convenient taxi ride for Druids. Put up forest after bashing and flow back to the Serenwilde. It was more utility for people than combat. Making it cost one power and lose entourages is a reasonable change, making it local area only, when I can walk 4 rooms if I really have to, is not.

There was a simple means to stop it. I did it to Yrael all the time.

First, I have to say this: Thank the gods I'm not a druid anymore, they've gotten completely raped recently, and weren't that great to start with.

Local area Flow I actually agree with, since it is a novice skill and all. Via could stand to be made the same way, in urban. HOWEVER, we need something in it's place. Catacombs gives cities a huge edge in village defense. It's not quite as reliable sometimes as our rifts, but it's at least five times as fast.

I only ever used Hermit to save travel time when bashing or questing, but any combat use it or Catacombs had is now gone. Sucks for tarot users.

Basically, the cities just got a massive upgrade, as did warriors to a lesser extent. The harder it is to run, the better it is for the people the best at standing there and taking damage. And Serenwilde and Glomdoring are simply going to tear each other apart now, because we are great at screwing each other, but lost a lot of our advantages over cities.

Nature SERIOUSLY needs an upgrade now. Rituals and Elementalism are each quite a bit better than it now.

I think that sort of trend is to be expected.

Just like there would be a trend where Serens and Celestians would be pleased if ghost and lichdom were given more restrictions, while Necromancers would not, and Magnagorans and Glomdorings would be pleased if covens were given more limitations, while moon users would not be amused at all.

People whom changes benefit would naturally be pleased, while people who get nerfed would generally not be. It's only a question of whether those changes were necessary or not. Although the admin ARE mortal () and will probably make some mistakes here and there, like everyone else, I believe (hope?) that they'd be objective and honest enough to consider all sides before making a decision, and correct any that seem to be significantly slanted.

I am ... confused.

Of course I'm not happy about the Flow changes. I'm wondering, and lost, concerning what our (everyone's, not just Serenwilde's) intent is to be, with many changes that've happened over time now. Or if not "intent," as various people have different objectives (both personal and organizational), what are we supposed to be able to do effectively? As someone just recently mentioned to me, "it hurts everyone, even non-combatants." In terms of fighting or being caught up in the edges of fightin: Are we supposed to be able to raid? Distorted villages seem to say no. Are we supposed to be able to defend? Flow changes seem to say no. Are we supposed to be able to escape? Flow/spore/etc changes seem to say no. I'm sure there are other examples out there, both to support and counter those ideas, but I'm not a fighter-type and I have very little knowledge of other skill areas, making me unqualified to comment.

I don't understand why such a significant change happened, though. Yes, I've seen and read various reasons why some think it's good, but I don't understand how those reasons outweigh the disadvantages. Moving Flow up to where Guard is in the skillset, I could see. Adding some significant cost (mana, ego, willpower, endurance ... I'm wincing at the idea of a power cost, even 1p, but others have mentioned it), I could see. Losing entourage, I could see. Various other ways in which Flow would have been further restricted, I could see. Making it local area only is just ... I just don't understand why.

I'll go work on attending to administrative duties, since that and teaching novices seem to be the large extent of my usefulness. And, since wisp now goes through monolith, I should probably find another location where I can concentrate.

Oh yes, maybe EVERY transportation skill will be nerfed like Flow was, Tess will now cost 10 power! teleport 8!


all in prep for the 4th class, the Transporter! all their skills deal with transporting others! they have no attacks and no defences!

Well if I had ghosting, I'd be happy. It isn't really a "teleport ability" but still very useful... and I imagine it will of course sneak past this nerf fest on that basis.

Double posts are the devil.

Ah well.

We were saddened and outraged when lichdom, contagion and putrefaction were nerfed. I guess it's only fair to allow the forestals some leeway with emotions too. If it's really slanted though, the admin will do something about it, although I seriously hope that will be due to a real necessity for correction, rather than just because everyone who got nerfed is depressed.

I don't know if you really want ghosting. Can't move in water, can't move past doors, get shaken out of ghost more or less every 5 seconds in distortion, then use 3p to put it up again, whee. It's possible to lock a ghost so they can't nativeform, can't move, can't cure, and have to wait to die from willpower loss cos they can't even heartstop.

I've been locked, no fun

*enter enormous amount of bitching about the flow change here*

It's all been said. I'm pissed off. Normally I could give a damn about skill changes, nerfs, etc. But this.... screw it. I hate this change, no amount of reasoning or whatnot is going to convince me that it was a good change or necessary.

Then again, lichdom, contagion and putrefaction aren't anywhere near novice skills

Ah well.

I'm getting deja vu for some reason or the other.

*random rant edited out about how this change hurts non-combatants*