Laysus2005-10-05 12:11:51
a bit of preparation?
briars, blocking, choke, carcer, whatever.
briars, blocking, choke, carcer, whatever.
Unknown2005-10-05 12:13:07
QUOTE(Daevos @ Oct 5 2005, 02:38 AM)
As far as teleportation skills go, Flow is the greatest imbalance in the game. For several reasons, which I will list now:
1. It only has one restriction, which is that both locations must be forested. But in this world of demesnes, forests are not static. It is possible for forests to be created any where, thus severely negating that one restriction. Not even monoliths stop it.
2. It has no cost at all, and can be done even while prone or entangled.
3. It is instantanteous, allowing for easy escape as well as ambushes.
4. Despite all of it's power it is learned as a novice ability in Nature.
I personally believe that it should be made area only or given further restrictions.
On summons, it has been my opinion from the very beginning that instant summoning skills shouldn't exist in this world where there are no consistent counters such as mass available to everyone. If such counter was implemented, it would balance the skills, but otherwise there needs to be a delay of some kind on all of them.
1. It only has one restriction, which is that both locations must be forested. But in this world of demesnes, forests are not static. It is possible for forests to be created any where, thus severely negating that one restriction. Not even monoliths stop it.
2. It has no cost at all, and can be done even while prone or entangled.
3. It is instantanteous, allowing for easy escape as well as ambushes.
4. Despite all of it's power it is learned as a novice ability in Nature.
I personally believe that it should be made area only or given further restrictions.
On summons, it has been my opinion from the very beginning that instant summoning skills shouldn't exist in this world where there are no consistent counters such as mass available to everyone. If such counter was implemented, it would balance the skills, but otherwise there needs to be a delay of some kind on all of them.
199085
As you and Nokraenom said in the thread where you and Narsrim were argueing about taint regen and sip balance - you can't base balance on the idea of a mage being there.
As to #2 - That's what this Envoy Review period is FOR. Gasp!
If flow is made area only or restricted, Via should be left as-is, as should teleport!
Thorgal2005-10-05 12:17:59
QUOTE(Ye of Little Faith @ Oct 5 2005, 02:13 PM)
If flow is made area only or restricted, Via should be left as-is, as should teleport!
199259
Nope!
Via should be as powerful as Flow, period.
Unknown2005-10-05 12:21:18
QUOTE(Thorgal @ Oct 5 2005, 07:17 AM)
Nope!Â
199260
Oh yea!
Leave Flow alone. I doubt they'll change it, as it's degraded into a Magnagora vs Serenwilde bitchfest, like it ALWAYS does when brought up. Moooove ooooon.
Thorgal2005-10-05 12:24:11
QUOTE(Ye of Little Faith @ Oct 5 2005, 02:21 PM)
Leave Flow alone.
199261
What a powerful argument. And if there's any bitchfest, it stems from you wanting to keep your overpowered traveling ability while leaving the cities with nothing, and arguing that the situation is fair.
If you want to keep Flow as it is, Via needs to be made equally powerful, if you don't want Via to become more powerful, nerf Flow to the same level of uselessness. Because it does give you a immensely massive advantage.
Giving it affliction restrictions and disabling entourage to follow would be the very least that should be changed about Flow.
Web, ropes, impales, disabled limbs, prone, paralysed... all should stop Flow, in short: the same list of restrictions ghost has, which is a long list. This couldn't even be called a nerf, since it should have been like this from the start, it has always been a rediculous and massively imbalancing design flaw.
Gregori2005-10-05 12:37:39
Ok disregarding Thorgal's comments, because they always amount to "I want candy cause he got candy!".
The Moon/Shadow-dancers will probably hate me for this, but Flow should be in Druidry and removed from Nature, and lose entourages.
The Moon/Shadow-dancers will probably hate me for this, but Flow should be in Druidry and removed from Nature, and lose entourages.
Thorgal2005-10-05 12:38:48
First you disregard my comments, then you agree with them?
Though your suggestion about moving it to druidry does make a lot of sense. But that still doesn't mean Via couldn't use a revamp does it?
Though your suggestion about moving it to druidry does make a lot of sense. But that still doesn't mean Via couldn't use a revamp does it?
Gregori2005-10-05 12:40:29
Note I ignored all your restrictions and other arguments about why Flow is unfair. I have always thought Flow should be in Druidry only. It is way to powerful for a novice skill.
Kaervas2005-10-05 12:43:13
Beckon is the most annoying summon skill in my opinion, it shouldn't go through icewalls and all that crap like it does now.
I'd say that now that demesne summon doesn't cost power when it fails to change it to maybe up the power cost to 5 or something. I'll come up with more suggestions when I'm out of college.
I'd say that now that demesne summon doesn't cost power when it fails to change it to maybe up the power cost to 5 or something. I'll come up with more suggestions when I'm out of college.
Ethelon2005-10-05 12:44:10
QUOTE(Gregori @ Oct 5 2005, 08:37 AM)
Ok disregarding Thorgal's comments, because they always amount to "I want candy cause he got candy!".
The Moon/Shadow-dancers will probably hate me for this, but Flow should be in Druidry and removed from Nature, and lose entourages.
The Moon/Shadow-dancers will probably hate me for this, but Flow should be in Druidry and removed from Nature, and lose entourages.
199273
I wouldn't mind this if our wiccans had something like Moonbeam.
I like the idea of Beckon only working as if the person was ordered to move, and thus stopped by situations which stopped movement.
Wisp, I think in order to counter Wisp traps everyone complains about needs to be made so it does not work while the wisper is standing on a monolith and that it works in any forest type, so it's not so one sided based on demesne alone anymore.
Gregori2005-10-05 12:45:30
I also agree Via should be upgraded. I don't really see why there is a wait on it to be honest. I always considered it (yes I have alts with it, so I know of what I speak) that it was the city version of Flow. However, it is seriously limited in where it can work. Make it Urban environments, canceled by enemy territory.
Gregori2005-10-05 12:46:36
QUOTE(Ethelon @ Oct 5 2005, 06:44 AM)
I wouldn't mind this if our wiccans had something like Moonbeam.
I like the idea of Beckon only working as if the person was ordered to move, and thus stopped by situations which stopped movement.
Wisp, I think in order to counter Wisp traps everyone complains about needs to be made so it does not work while the wisper is standing on a monolith and that it works in any forest type, so it's not so one sided based on demesne alone anymore.
I like the idea of Beckon only working as if the person was ordered to move, and thus stopped by situations which stopped movement.
Wisp, I think in order to counter Wisp traps everyone complains about needs to be made so it does not work while the wisper is standing on a monolith and that it works in any forest type, so it's not so one sided based on demesne alone anymore.
199282
I didn't realise Shadowdancers are without a moonbeam-esque skill. They should be given one then, and Flow be given soley to druids where it belongs.
Laysus2005-10-05 12:48:10
Beam should be continent-wide on full moon >.>
Shiri2005-10-05 12:51:32
QUOTE(Gregori @ Oct 5 2005, 01:37 PM)
The Moon/Shadow-dancers will probably hate me for this
199273
Yes. Yes we will.
Unknown2005-10-05 12:54:07
Shamarah: Aquamancers have Bubble!
As for Flow... Yes, maybe it should be bumped up in the skills a whole lot. But NOT moved to Druidry. Think about the skill:
You shed Mugwump form and flow as a spirit through the verdant leaves, embracing the physical once more and arrive at putrefied glen.
Sounds a lot more like someone is in tune with _Nature_, and able to flow through it.
As for Flow... Yes, maybe it should be bumped up in the skills a whole lot. But NOT moved to Druidry. Think about the skill:
You shed Mugwump form and flow as a spirit through the verdant leaves, embracing the physical once more and arrive at putrefied glen.
Sounds a lot more like someone is in tune with _Nature_, and able to flow through it.
Unknown2005-10-05 12:56:33
QUOTE(Etanru @ Oct 5 2005, 07:54 AM)
Shamarah: Aquamancers have Bubble!
As for Flow... Yes, maybe it should be bumped up in the skills a whole lot. But NOT moved to Druidry. Think about the skill:
You shed Mugwump form and flow as a spirit through the verdant leaves, embracing the physical once more and arrive at putrefied glen.
Sounds a lot more like someone is in tune with _Nature_, and able to flow through it.
As for Flow... Yes, maybe it should be bumped up in the skills a whole lot. But NOT moved to Druidry. Think about the skill:
You shed Mugwump form and flow as a spirit through the verdant leaves, embracing the physical once more and arrive at putrefied glen.
Sounds a lot more like someone is in tune with _Nature_, and able to flow through it.
199290
What the hell do you think Druidry? Garden Trimming for Dummies? Or an advanced form of manipulation of Nature?
Acrune2005-10-05 12:58:31
QUOTE(Etanru @ Oct 5 2005, 08:54 AM)
Shamarah: Aquamancers have Bubble!
199290
You're joking, right?
Bubble does what, moves you two rooms away (well, 1 room away, 1 room back, 2 rooms away, 1 room back, 1 room back, etc), and your enemies just follow the bubble around until it pops?
Just hope you're joking...
When it comes to escape, center is our best bet.
Unknown2005-10-05 12:58:40
I'd say it was closer to manipulating nature to your will.
Unknown2005-10-05 12:59:15
QUOTE(Acrune @ Oct 5 2005, 07:58 AM)
You're joking, right?
Bubble does what, moves you two rooms away (well, 1 room away, 1 room back, 2 rooms away, 1 room back, 1 room back, etc), and your enemies just follow the bubble around until it pops?
Just hope you're joking...
When it comes to escape, center is our best bet.
Bubble does what, moves you two rooms away (well, 1 room away, 1 room back, 2 rooms away, 1 room back, 1 room back, etc), and your enemies just follow the bubble around until it pops?
Just hope you're joking...
When it comes to escape, center is our best bet.
199293
Yes, I was joking. But it's still an awesome skill.
Shiri2005-10-05 13:00:19
No one is going to try and tell me Wicca isn't nature related now. Seeing as the spirits you summon are the freaking spirits of nature.
And we HAVE nature. Already. It's for this stuff. So no. No moving it into Druidry.
And we HAVE nature. Already. It's for this stuff. So no. No moving it into Druidry.