Because Glomdoring isn't as power hungry as Serenwilde and we share a mutual alliance o.o

The Court/The Glomdoring offered Celest a ceasefire and a lift on the trade ban that is supposedly in place, if they want to go against SW or something.

Yes, because that makes sense for Celest to side with Glomdoring against Serenwilde. Even if Celest has a beef with Serenwilde, does not mean that it should forget its supposed anti-taint stance (Sorry Glom, but Celest does see you as tainted even if your goddess does not).

I find it amusing that Celest has more "hatred" for Serenwilde now when just a week ago, Magnagora was raping the Supernals. It is funny how true enemies can hide behind minor issues.

You stfu. I've been entirely for Serenwilde and have always done what is required and more. I see something different and it's not along the lines of how we've normally done things. My rp isn't insane or complicated. I just don't like to screw anyone over.

It wouldn't be "siding". What was suggested was a ceasefire, not an alliance - in order to concentrate upon a common enemy.

Rubbish.

In my opinion metagaming would be continuing with the "let's keep bedding down with the city people we supposedly despise, because of course we need to win".

You actually mean a fanatical conviction and willingness to sacrifice/screw over others because we believe ourselves and our ways to be more important. That is certainly a Serenwilde trait.


Honestly, step back and realize that there is no OOC justification for Serenwilde's actions, and THERE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BE!

It was entirely IC. Celest can look at it and say, those bastard savages, betraying us for their own personal greed and power and taking away a city that was rightfully ours. Serenwilde can look at it and say, those bastard cityfolk, wanting to selfishly use us as a tool for their own greed and personal power, screw them.

Look at that, two very different, equally valid IC viewpoints.

Why doesn't anyone ever ask them to leave then they'd help us with a village? When they'd help us defend Faethorn? If we felt that we were steering so far off course, why did we let them assist us at all? Why did we help them at all? We set a precedent and then you act surprised when someone is a bit taken aback by our recent actions?

I didn't think that it was about winning so much as it was to keep afloat and to keep Magnagora from utterly stomping us into the ground, which is why we started to work together initially.

Everyone wants more conflict now. You guys want to see a Seren vs Celest war?

Two weeks from now, someone will come to the forums, crying and begging for the conflict to stop.

We might have the numbers, but we still have about as many fighters as Magnagora has and when they're together, they're a force to be reckoned with. Glomdoring seems to be getting their act together as well. So we're hothots now? We've never needed Celest? Fine.

You all have what you wanted now. It's in our rp to turn everyone against us. Neat-o.

I just wish we could have found a way to break apart without instilling hostilities between both sides. It's rather stupid, strategically. It's good for us to learn to do things alone and suffer our losses as they may come and that might be the only good thing to come of this.

No need to argue anymore, eh?

Commune vs. City is never happening. I don't know why people are focusing on what similarities Glomdoring and Serenwilde have. Look at freaking Celest and Magnagora! They're polar opposites.

Anyway. I don't really know what's going on here, but I kind of hope the ESA doesn't dissolve over it. (And Nejii's not happy with Kalodan about killing dwarves either, for what that's worth.) Us vs. Magnagora + Glomdoring (you can bet there's no way in hell they're going to stop snuggling each other, especially with the whole refills issue) is going to be pretty damn nasty, and much much MUCH more nasty for Celest if this puts them in that position.

Not on an OOC forum that tells us NOTHING we can use to change in-game events, no.

If Malicia the character wants to dispute the direction of Serenwilde in game though, that would be very worthwhile. That debate could prove very useful, one way or the other.

Elryn -


I don't see how it is metagaming for two organizations to acknowledge that they have a common enemy and that it is economically and politically beneficial for both to at least not weaken each other. Because one thing that both organizations would have learned by now is to never underestimate this particular enemy. That can be justified, completely IC, based on recent history.

Nor is it really metagaming for mutual defense to build friendships that are possibly not as practical but definitely don't need to be justified in any OOC forum.

Of course, neither is it metagaming to refer to such a practical (if virtual) alliance as "cowardice" or "bedding down" in hopes that the two organizations will allow their pride to overcome their common sense and turn on each other. Not to point specifically at your quote -- Because these are really common propaganda terms that have been applied to many different alliances.

Xavius -


Now stop giving me guilt trips whenever we fight, and in the middle of the demesne you just melded no less!

This being the 21st year of the war between Serenwilde and Magnagora, and the 28th year of the war between Magnagora and Celest, I think everyone can agree that it would be nice to see a change in the political situation. Fighting the same people for the same things over and over and over does get a bit dull.

However, I doubt a Commune v. City scenario is really possible right now. The only thing we're ever likely to see (until the release of Gaudiguch and Hallifax) is a free-for-all conflict.

If fairly isolationist-oriented leaders are elected in the cities and communes that might change things as well, but I don't foresee that happening. Nejii is rabidly pro-Celest, Shamarah is unlikely to want to throw away Serenwilde's help against Magnagora nor concede defeat to Magnagora (hooray for Celestian masochism/pride), Daevos isn't likely to throw away Magnagora's relationship with Glomdoring as long as Celest and Serenwilde continue to work together against Magnagora, and nor is Etanru likely to seek isolation as long as Serenwilde continues to act so outwardly aggressive towards Glomdoring. Of the four, Etanru is probably (in my eyes) the likeliest to pursue such a course, and Nejii the least likely.

Anyway, I think from an OOC standpoint this event is a great move by Serenwilde, because it falls more firmly into the historical Serenwilde mentality than the Malicia/Narsrim-mentality of being more open and friendly towards others. Seren has some great people in it, and Sylphas in particular impressed me recently in a conversation we had regarding the dracnari nomads. Great RP there. I think others like Elryn follow in the same vein.

IC I know next-to-nothing about the event, so it's really irrelevant to me.

Nejii doesn't base all his decision on his own opinions, I hope you realise, Nokraenom. Otherwise angels wouldn't be banned in the Serenwilde anymore.

"Rabid" he may be, but that doesn't determine how likely Serenwilde is to do something as you may think.

I love how people assume they know, when they don't. Malicia isn't unfriendly towards 'others' (the tainted ones, I'm assuming) though she sees no reason to become close to them.

I think he said you were friendly. And Narsrim. He was referring to being friendly to Celest.

And then Hajamin will slap every single celestian and then leave them to fend for themselves without Divine counsel . Hajamin and Shikari have thier differences and this usually results of them being severly pissed if they be friendly to each other since Hajamin was like 'all shrines are to be non existant!'

Heh, I knew those sort of responses would crop up. I should really go into business as a psychic.

Nejii: The point I was making is that city leaders serve as the most pivotal figures (in almost all cases) for the ideology of the nation. Of course you listen to the advice of others, as does any city leader. However, you are a very powerful voice in Serenwilde politics (assuming you don't let the others trample all over you), and therefore Serenwilde politics are far more likely to slant in the direction of your personal views than otherwise. I'm not suggesting that you are dictator-in-chief of Serenwilde policy or views, merely that you have a profound influence on them.

Malicia: By others I meant any non-Serens. Historically, Serenwilde cares only for itself foremost, the other communes secondarily, and everyone else not at all. My post was, and remains to be, an OOC commentary by the player behind Nokraenom. This isn't what Nok would think or argue, and has nothing to do with tainted characters or nations. Don't be so defensive.

I don't think you know the full story behind that.

I know that Hajamin doesnt want it