Anyway. My point being it may make you feel bad as a player for not giving the village to Celest but from a Seren character view it does not hold water IMO. As the heirs of Glinshari and Ellindel the purpose of the Commune (at least originally as stated in the written histories) is to heal the Basin and plant one large, lovely, continuous forest. Ask Abeytu and he'll tell you.

From a player stand piont I do have sympathy for Celest. The long term remaining players have had quite a rough time and anyone who sticks it out for a RL year has quite a bit more patience then I do. If I had the inclination or the reources I would have made a Paladin or Aquamancer alt sometime ago. The concept of playing a Templar or Zealot Mage in the last days of a fallen empire seems very rewarding.

I didn't really want to get into this argument, but I thought I'd throw in my two scents anyway.


When I got there, about 30 minutes into the influencing:

Eromhlak, of Summer Moonlight (Southgard Platinum Station)
Borca, Dark Lord of the Taint (Southgard gates)
Moon Wisdom Zenji, the Silver Watcher (The Throne of the Dwarven Kings)
Dumihru (Imdar Circlet)
Thaemorn, Dreamer of Thorns (Southgard General Store)
Veradin, Sir Ekard Peulus, Shakiniel's C(Flight of marble stairs)
Luthe d'Murani, Dog of War (Imdar Circlet)
Seeker of the Dawn Kalodan Caelicus, Gol(Southgard Great Forge)
High Wisdom Shorlen Mes'ard of the Moond(The Portals of Serenwilde)
Atherius, Seeker of the Nine (Flight of marble stairs)
Autumnal Wisdom Ibaesha Caelicus, Scion (Southgard Platinum Station)
Apprentice Alyara (Southgard gates)
Priest Keldoran Lenu, Shakiniel's Seraph(Entering the Southgard hold)
Grand Inquisitor Shinza Tharedia, Huntre(Bend in a wide tunnel)
High Crusader Sir Silimaur, Knight of th(Entering the Southgard hold)
The High Wiccan Vixen, Vix, Fortunate Am(Bottom of a mine shaft)
Queen of the Night, Shayle d'Iasani Tree(Imdar Circlet)
Mistress of Roses, Munsia D'cente`, Natu(Southgard General Store)
Squire Ishimoru Edoc'sil, of the Armies (The Throne of the Dwarven Kings)
Squire Ashia Tharedia, of the Armies of (Bend in a wide tunnel)
Ravenous Aiwendil (Entering the Southgard hold)
Keeper's Assistant Gelo, Litwix's Snuggl(Southgard Platinum Station)
Rashidat, of Autumn Moonlight (The Throne of the Dwarven Kings)
Heir of Ellindel, Narsrim D'cente` Moonl(Laranga's Jewelry)

12 Serenwilde, 7 Celest, 3 Glomdoring, and 2 Magnagoran
This isn't counting Gemmed people, of which Seren had two of, I think. Gregori and... Elryn?




Halfway through the influencing:

You make out the scent of Tsakar coming from the chambers of the seer.
You make out the scent of Ibaesha coming from Southgard Marble Station.
You make out the scent of Ishimoru coming from the Great Dwarven Hall.
You make out the scent of Shayle coming from the chambers of the seer.
You make out the scent of Ashia coming from the Great Dwarven Hall.
You make out the scent of Thaemorn coming from sharp curve in the coal mines.
You make out the scent of Alyara coming from the chambers of the seer.
You make out the scent of Rizzen coming from Southgard Gold Station.
You make out the scent of Shinza coming from the Great Dwarven Hall.
You make out the scent of Zenji coming from the Throne of the Dwarven Kings.
You make out the scent of Gregori coming from Imdar Circlet.
You make out the scent of Rashidat coming from the Throne of the Dwarven Kings.
You make out the scent of Caighan coming from the chambers of the seer.
You make out the scent of Eromhlak coming from Southgard Platinum Station.
You make out the scent of Gelo coming from Southgard Silver Mines.
You make out the scent of Shaylen coming from the chambers of the seer.
You make out the scent of Kalodan coming from the Throne of the Dwarven Kings.
You make out the scent of Kaileigh coming from Imdar Circlet.
You make out the scent of Bau coming from the chambers of the seer.
You make out the scent of Ekard coming from Southgard Coal Mines.
You make out the scent of Narsrim coming from Laranga's Jewelry.
You make out the scent of Munsia coming from the chambers of the seer.
You make out the scent of Yuniko coming from Imdar Circlet.
You make out the scent of Borca coming from the Throne of the Dwarven Kings.
You make out the scent of Raxilin coming from Southgard Gold Station.
You make out the scent of Luthe coming from the chambers of the seer.
You make out the scent of Silimaur coming from entry to the Great Dwarven Hall.
You make out the scent of Dumihru coming from entry to the Great Dwarven Hall.
You make out the scent of Diamante coming from the chambers of the seer.
You make out the scent of Vix coming from entry to the Great Dwarven Hall.


Serenwilde: 17 (including me), Celest: 6, Glomdorian: 3, Magnagoran: 5



The very end of the Influencing:

You make out the scent of Ishimoru coming from the Throne of the Dwarven Kings.
You make out the scent of Kalodan coming from the chambers of the seer.
You make out the scent of Shinza coming from the Throne of the Dwarven Kings.
You make out the scent of Ashia coming from the Throne of the Dwarven Kings.
You make out the scent of Borca coming from Southgard Silver Station.
You make out the scent of Yeralih coming from Cookhouse.
You make out the scent of Rashidat coming from Southgard Coal Station.
You make out the scent of Rizzen coming from Southgard Gold Station.
You make out the scent of Xavius coming from Cookhouse.
You make out the scent of Dumihru coming from Southgard Iron Mines.
You make out the scent of Zenji coming from the Throne of the Dwarven Kings.
You make out the scent of Eromhlak coming from Imdar Circlet.
You make out the scent of Yuniko coming from Laranga's Jewelry.
You make out the scent of Shayle coming from the chambers of the seer.
You make out the scent of Silimaur coming from Imdar Circlet.
You make out the scent of Ibaesha coming from the chambers of the seer.
You make out the scent of Kaileigh coming from Southgard Gold Station.
You make out the scent of Gregori coming from top of the grand stairway.
You make out the scent of Ekard coming from the Throne of the Dwarven Kings.
You make out the scent of Caighan coming from the chambers of the seer.
You make out the scent of Munsia coming from top of the grand stairway.
You make out the scent of Gelo coming from Southgard Coal Mines.
You make out the scent of Vix coming from Southgard Platinum Mines.
You make out the scent of Narsrim coming from Laranga's Jewelry.
You make out the scent of Diamante coming from the chambers of the seer.
You make out the scent of Daevos coming from the chambers of the seer.
You make out the scent of Alyara coming from the chambers of the seer.


15 Serenwilde (including me), 6 Celest, 3 Glomdorian, and 4 Magnagoran




At any given time, we had more CR6 people than any other organization had people, and at any given time, we had more people than all other organizations combined. Yes, we could have easily given the village to New Celest, but I doubt they had much of a chance after the FFA that Daevos was in ended (the second and third scryings) if Serenwilde decided not to lift a finger. I make no judgements here - enough before me already have. I simply wanted to state a few facts. Oh, and this is also a fact - what Kalo did was wrong. Few in the Seren support such behaviour.

This is only part of your post I disagree with. It is not fact. It does not matter how many people disagree with him. It may have been wrong for Shorlen, or Cronnacht, or Malicia but that does not make it wrong for Kalo. Would it have been wrong in the 20th Century by Western Standards? Yes. Would it have it been wrong in the 1300 or 1400's if Kalo was a Crusader and the dwarves were Moors by the standards of predomiant European culture? No.

Also how many times has Serenwilde raided villages and killed the villagers and proceeded to influence them when they revolted? So Kalodan does it to dwarves that are currently not loyal to Serenwilde while influencing is going on and suddenly he is wrong?

It is ok to kill them when we are not influencing, but not ok to kill them when we are?

Note that I personally don't agree with what he did regardless. However, I don't think what he did was necessarily wrong either. It just isn't something I would do.

Okay, fine, it isn't a fact, it is a judgement and didn't belong in the above post. However, that many, many Serens think it was wrong is a fact.

Going for a final OOC point on an IC issue:

Some of us have been applauded for killing Ethilwen, to have Thoril crowned.

I just don't think it's right, IC, to attack people you're trying to sway to your side, and to kill them if are possibly kinda considering someone else.

IC, there's absolutely nothing wrong with Kalodan killing dwarves, not from Serenwilde's point of view, since they all killed dwarves in Southgard continuously in raids, even those that are saying Kalodan was wrong in doing so.

The Heir of Ellindel is a servant and child of Lord Hajamin. A God of the Light. The Patron of Celest. In the end, the histories are simply that. History. Things change.

I would be content with 2-4 villages and Celest with about the same. We've never seemed to want more than we've needed or to act with greed and malice. Celest has done things for us. Icly and as a player, it is not so farfetched to want return the favour. It does not make sense for us to want to be on hostile terms with every organization in Lusternia. I wish I could quote something Lisaera said on the matter over the order channel, but I lost it. Meh.

And for the record, Malicia does not slay dwarves. I've never been enemied to SG or RH. When I'd raid, I'd kill Glom guards.

You should join the paladins and Amaru in Celest! Obviously Serenwilde doesn't need you any longer, Celest moreso, a lot at that.

It's under consideration! *hop*

I love the Serenguard. How do you leave something that you helped build?

I beleive it's something along the lines of 'Quit serenguard' Don't hold me too this though .

If Kalo was killing every single uninfluenced, influenced et al dwarves, I'd agree. However, he solely went for those influenced by Celest and Glomdoring. I mean, look at it this way - in Iraq (because these sorts of analogies are always fun), if you have ten arabs. Five say they're for the U.S., and the other five say they're for two of the main terrorist groups - what do you think we should do? Wait for them to change their mind?

Sorry. Smoosh.

What a example.

EDIT: Watch your language. ~Shiri~

The Heir of Ellindel is a title and an elected position nothing more nothing less.

In the end the Histories are not simply histories. They are a plot device full of possible guidelines and motivations provided to us by the Admin to flesh out the atmosphere of the factions we choose to play in.



See above statement. You may see it as greed and malice because of your sentiments towards Celest but that does not make it greed or malice. For it to be greed it would require Serenwilde to be covetous of Celest. For it to be malice it would have had to be done solely for the intent of sticking it to Celest. Those involved are clearly stating this was not the case. Doing something that benefits Serenwilde and is in line with the plot concept as established for Serenwilde by the Admins does not equate to greed and malice.



And Serenwilde has done things for them. They have also done things against us(Recall the fae incident and their brief non-agression pact with Magnagora.). IMO it all comes down to a few simple factors. 1) Would you rather see Southguard in the hands of Glomdoring. 2)Do you believe the other Seren players when they say the there was a real risk of not being able to hold the village if a decision was made to try and hand it over to Celest.

If the answer to 2 is no then I think the issue goes beyond what has so far been discussed in this thread.

Look, it's done. This conversation has outlived its usefulness.

Let's argue around in circles some more.

OR you could all go IC and this could be ten times more fun!

Sadly true. I should take Gwylifar's advice.



One of the few times I agree with Thorgal.

So please don't be upset at this portrait that I paint
It may be a little biased, but at least I spelled your name right...

*sings*

To Cron- If I do, it'll be handled ic and not decided off of the opinions offered here. Amaru's always asked me to join Celest IG but I'm pretty attached. So Cron, you can continue making useless comments. It makes little difference to me. I shouldn't have even mentioned the Paladins here. It's the Serenguard that I'm more concerned about, in game.

I find it amusing that everyone in the SW (ic ic ic) is coming down on me for disagreeing with what happened with SG. It's the first time I've ever spoke out against anything and suddenly, I'm no longer needed? Sure.

Lisaera even stated that we went about things in the wrong way. It's not only me. If I'm somehow raining on your parade IG, I don't mean to. I'll go so far as to apologize. For the most part, I fully support and encourage everything we do and am normally proud of the Serenwilde. In this one instance, I'm not.