Many of the people decrying it have Scent themselves, Gregori. This is a case of realm balance.

I love having Scent, it's freakishly useful. It just needs an accessible counter, and the best I can think of is temporary immunity provided by Cleanse or Scrubbing. In terms of both logic and balance, that would make sense. Skunk spray would still give we forestals an advantage, since we can blanket mask entire rooms.

Actually I have seen very few people who have it, decrying it. What I have seen though is a common trend over the last week of people from Magnagora finding any skill they can to say is overpowered and ignoring all factual evidence given to them to say otherwise.

Are you serious? You think it would still be useful if one mage in a city could provide protection for said city for an hour?

Of all the junk you stated that makes it so useful, I would think an "acceptable" balance to it instead of making it worthless would be:

1. Give it a small balance cost equivalent to the equilibrium cost of scry
2. Make it take the 15 endurance because farscout takes 15 willpower
3. Aethersight or another ability should allow you to to realize that someone is detecting you.

I love how you can argue that aethersight is a "counter" to scry even though it doesn't one immune to scry, yet you suggest a "counter" for scent that does.

Did you even bother to check your facts on Farscout before posting, or is this just another thread because you're bored on the forums and want to incite another "controversial" topic to read? I'm inclined to think it's the latter.

PlanarSight - See anyone on your plane regardless of continent.

Oh, you just must have been confused and meant CosmicSense, right? But wait!

CosmicSense - Sense anyone on adjacent planes.

Way to make up facts to make it sound more powerful than it is when you want to see something downgraded (or are bored and looking to start an argument). 3 Planes away? Yeah right, Farscout has never done that.

I'm afraid Nokraenom is right. Farscout only sees enemies/allies on the same plane/continent as you. Cosmicsense allows you to see enemies/allies on adjacent planes as well. There currently is no way to see someone three planes away with farscout.

Do try to be truthful when explaining the facts Narsrim, with cosmicsense it can detect (same as window) one plane away, with cosmicsense, two different planes if you are on a plane other then prime or astral as every other plane has two adjacent planes. Anything that sees 3 planes away like that is a misweave, and probably already fixed seeing as how I use farscout semi-regularly on the normal raiders or when asked to check, and have never seen more then adjacent plane, certainly not 'Tsakar scouting me on prime from Nil', in fact I've had not show those on opposite planes, such as those on Celestia from Nil, that did show if I transversed down to earth or up to astral, though that seemed to only happen in Nil (as I believe I have seen those on water from earth around the same time) will have to test that more.

Farscout:
- Novices Guardians can use, tail end of Cosmic
- Essentially window for either all enemies or allies, 30 max either way
- Costs small mana and eq costs
- Detectable, and all those who complain about it can
- Target must either be on enemy or ally list
- Same continent on plane only, unless with Planarsight planar (expert) for anyone same
plane, or Cosmicsense planar (fabled) for adjacent planes
- Short of leaving where you were spotted, isn't 'stoppable'
- If someone that raids is not a normal raider and hence enemied for scouting, it falls to
thirdeye who scanning, or hoping a mage has the place melded with watch up, if the
attacker has a gem, wandering around the village hoping to see them before they run off
- If you being scouted by it you've raided or done something else to the person or group
they below to be being scouted in the first place, and if farscout wasn't there it would just
take a little longer for them to window each one (bar events such as influencing or the nice
new wildnodes or what have you where you'd be tracked as a opposing influencer)
- Is primarily convience, if there wasn't farscout those who use it would just window each on
their list instead, I only use farscout when something calls for help for the usual suspects
or periodically to keep track. If I didn't have it I'd do the same individually, I use window
for all normal purposes and when asked to check a specific person

Scent:
- Novices of either Druid or Wiccan guilds can use, mid Totems if I remember correctly
- Essentially a improved scan, don't need to be in the trees, can sense indoors and
outdoors, gives location of everyone in the local area, regardless of how many are there
- No balance or eq cost, might not have a mana cost am not aware, but if it does its not big
- Is stoppable, if you have the same skillset that has the skill to begin with, totems for
communes
- Undetectable, if you don't know the forestal is there to begin with, by them making their
presence known, obessive who checking with thirdeye, or farscout/window/scry, you won't
- Local area only
- Can use any means of getting to the raided place, flow or spores or porting or walking,
and sense and instantly know who's in the local area and where they are, unless they also
have skunk totem

Both have their benefits, both serve their purpose, though as Geb and others said I think it makes more sense that a goodly higher ability like scan, which you 'see' where those outside are in the local area, would make more sense in knowing exactly where they are, then a novice ability with the scent where they 'smell' that they are at least in the local area, perhaps with an additional 'scent soandso' 'they smell like they are to the northeast' room by room, balance needed or not

Edit: lord posts fill up fast, started writing this post with only Murphy I believe having replied and by the time its posted its on the second page, course I was making dinner so it took a bit longer then it would have. But Nokraenom stated what I said nicely

So you can sit on Earth, and I am assuming from the way you described it. See people on Prime, Celestia/Nil, and of course Earth/Water, since that is the level you are on to begin with.

Yet you say Scent is bad because I can smell you if I happen to be in the same area as you.

Thirdeye is silly. It shouldn't show locations on who.

ad·ja·cent
adj.
1. Close to; lying near: adjacent cities.
2. Next to; adjoining: adjacent garden plots.

No, from Earth you cannot see Prime. You can see Earth, Nil, Water, Ethereal.

Thank you dictionary.com. I happen to know what adjacent means. I was using Tsakar's description of said ability. If Prime is not adjacent to Earth, that still doesn't negate the other 4 planes you can look at while sitting on Earth.

It also doesn't negate the fact you are comparing a Novice skill that will find anyone anywhere, I could sit at the Megalith and see people in Serenwilde, to a Novice skill that only finds people in the same local area as them.

Edit: 'd by Nokraenom again, yes people are, I'm not, I'm saying that people need to stop being silly and crying nerf farscout simply for nerfing it, window and scry have been there since the beginning of the realm, anyone in the basin can have them and do the same thing, yet some people decide to go start a thread like this now

Edit of the Edit: (yes I prefer to edit then post too much) Thorgal made a post based on a expensive artifact being made (in his opinion) useless by a novice skill, that isn't anywhere in parallel to making a thread to simply complain about a skill for the hell of it, which he's said already was for his own amusement, par what Nokraenom said

Do read what was said, prime is 2 planes away from elemental, not adjacent, and that takes a *fabled* skill in addition to the skill being used to do, which is not needed for what scent does in any way. If you meant Ethereal, Earth, and Nil, and their adjacent Water/Cosmic discounting the possible bug I need to test some more, from Earth then yes, and anyone anywhere can do the same, with a window/scry enchantment and the same skill level in planar, it just might take them a bit longer.

If you are referring to me in the last part, I never complained about scent, I simply gave my thoughts on that it hardly makes sense for the 'scent' of someone to tell you the *exact* room and place of someone from anywhere in an area, where an ability where you actually 'see' exactly where they are doesn't, discounting that one is a novice ability and the other is fairly high up skill, and made a logical suggestion that came to mind, if the divine think its a bad one then I'd never complained about it to begin with, Narsrim got bored and decided to annoy people and I simply listed the bonuses and downsides to both, they're both useful, they both serve their purpose, farscout is convience and hardly needs anything less, scent is communes way of doing what it does, and is ok as is, though would make more logical and 'in my opinion' balance sense to work as Geb suggested on the other thread which I repeated

Actually Narsrim took the parallel of Thorgal's thread. I note that everyone is willing to say "narsrim is being an idiot for complaining about this." Yet the person who started it all, is justified?

I'm not comparing anything. I pointed out that it was my impression that Narsrim was posting this solely for his own amusement value and not to add anything particularly constructive to the forum dialogue. He (and Munsia) have stated that they start threads to "incite" faux-controversial topics when they are bored so they have something to read. The clear use of misleading or just plain factually incorrect information further supports such a claim, since if it were a real issue of concern one would assume that a knowledgeable player like Narsrim would ensure that his concerns are valid and accurate before posting about them.

I categorically refuse to actually entertain the thought of this as a valid discussion for that very reason, and hence post any reply other than to point out the blatantly wrong information being presented: that you can farscout people from 3 planes away (e.g., Prime to Cosmic).

Actually if you had read the thread you would have seen that it went long passed just a simple "gems of cloaking are made useless" which in fact they are not. They are the exact same as they have always been. The only difference now is that there is one more skill added to the 6 or 7 out there that will see a gemmed person.

Narsrim's thread was completely justified because no matter how many times it was brought up in that other thread, everyone side stepped the fact that Farscout does the same thing at a further range, and continued on the only Scent is an issue bandwagon. However this thread is turning into a mirror of the other thread, so if you wish to discuss Scent I will respond in the Scent thread.

EDIT:: I won't speak for Narsrim's mistakes on the planes and how far away they are, and I myself was misinformed on the way the range worked. However, I am willing to be corrected on such and have been. That still doesn't change the fact that Farscout will always be superior as a scrying ability, and any downgrades to such skills should be across the board, not just picking and choosing which skills you dislike because your enemies use them.

And you keep sidestepping the fact that I was simply stating my opinion and leaving it at that, and you keep going as if its being 'debated', as well as sidestepping that it takes a expert, or fabled skill in addition to the other to see all of, or adjacent plane, and that anyone anywhere can do exactly the same thing with an enchantment, if a little less convenient, all farscout does is make it more convient not having to window/scry them individually. I in fact did read the other post, and I do in fact perfectly understand the gem does what its described to do, as you obviously are aware I never posted on that thread, and for a reason, this 'unbore narsrim' thread is about farscout and soley that

I am not sidestepping the issue of needing a fabled skill to see other planes. This doesn't change the fact that any novice. Hell any person in Lusternia can utilise an enchantment to see anyone, anywhere on the same plane. Leave out the whole other planes business for now. What do you have? A Novice skill that locates allies or enemies anywhere on the plane.

You may not be comparing the two, and I am not suggesting you are. However you are one of the few who have said "They each have advantages and disadvantages" and not immediately jumped up and down screaming "NERF THEM!"

Just for argument's sake. I could really care less if Scent didn't tell me room names. The majority of people wouldn't know where a room is in relation to themselves anyways. I happen to be in the minority that would know, but the fact that I know you are in the area is more than I need. If I know you are in one of my villages from scent, it doesn't matter if I know what room you are in or not. Unless you have changed the terrain I can flow right to you. On the same token, if I know what room you are in and you have changed the terrain to stop me flowing it doesn't do me any good at all to know what room you are in, unless I happen to know "Room ABCD is on the lower level of the eastern section, next to the EFGH denizen."

And god help me if you move rooms before I figure out how to walk there. Forcing me to figure out where the room you are in now is.

Personally I think both are fine enough as is, I stated my opinion on what might make a bit more sense in terms of scent/scan, but scent as it is doesn't bother me, if I ever got a gem I wouldn't expect it to block it, though I do think its a bit expensive just to block who, but thats for the other thread I'm not arguing anything about that. If people really think that a skill (window/scry) that anyone can use on an enchant is really that big a issue it should have its own thread, not have what is essentially simply making doing it on a common group more convient, though again I personally do not see why people would be having a big complaint about window/scry now when they've always been there, and you have to have someone in mind to do it on, which if someone is in mind they've more then likely raided or given the person or the guild/city they belong to a reason to check on them to begin with.

Though it doesn't really make a difference on prime yet (new areas anyone?), there are off-continent places, such as the catacombs seperated from ethereal, mountain of madness from earth, or the river area where the pool is from water, for example, that require planarsight which is expert planar, anyone can't see anyone on any plane they're on always, but thats just to clarify on something you've said

That's why I was addressing the issue from the perspective of the Prime plane. I mean let's face it in regards to Ethereal if I farscout and don't see you, while I am in the Ethereal Serenwilde, then I don't really care where you are. Be in the Catacombs, that's fine. On water and Earth there may be more issue, that the fabled arguement comes into play, but you can still get a good sense of things without the fabled abilities.

Regardless, I agree with you. Things are fine the way they are, they have always been this way, and complaining about one more skill doing the same thing as every other skill has always done is just nit picking because some people have nothing better to do.