(Celest): Amaru says, "Lord Hajamin, then."

(Celest): Amaru says, "Could You stop Diamante from killing innocent scholars
please?"

(Celest): Hajamin says, "Funny, I haven't seen him slay any scholars."
lications.

(Celest): Amaru says, "Well, I saw him die to one."

(Celest): Amaru says, "I would suggest that is rather indicative."


(Celest): Hajamin says, "I saw him die to a monk, not a scholar."


(Celest): Amaru says, "The monks... are... scholars..."


(Celest): Hajamin says, "They are monks, monks tend to study in religion only.
A scholar studies all that they can."


(Celest): Amaru says, "Um, yes Lord."


(Celest): Amaru says, "In that case, could You stop him from slaughtering
innocent monks?"

(Celest): Hajamin says, "Who are you to judge if they are innocent."

(Celest): Hajamin says, "More importantly, who are you to tell ME what to do?"


(Celest): Amaru says, "A rational person."


(Celest): Amaru says, "I'm asking, not telling."


(Market): Jen says, "Looking to buy glaingale."



(Celest): Hajamin says, "A rational person... funny I have heard you also
practice thieving arts, have a rational explination for that?"


(Celest): Amaru says, "Quite."


(Celest): Amaru says, "I did it as a retaliatory act to Richter, after he
karmic cursed me, and then gave everything back to him."

(Celest): You say, "Wait, let me get this straight... It is ... OK... to kills
the monks in Tosha?"


(Celest): Hajamin says, "I see no laws against it, not to mention Diamante is
not a citizen of Celest."


(Celest): Amaru says, "Diamante has an explanation. It is okay because 'they
are not named'"


(Celest): Hajamin says, "Ok... so you attacked someone, and killed them. They
use their right to curse you, so that gives you the right to result to
theivery?"


(Celest): Amaru says, "My Lord, I request that we return to the topic at hand."


(Celest): Ciera says, "Amaru, if you are in Terentia's order, how would you
know what Lord Hajamin's laws are...?"


(Celest): Amaru says, "A member of Your Order is killing monks..."

(Celest): You say, "May I ask what Your thoughts on the matter are, Lord
Hajamin? How do You feel about citizens of Celest killing monks in Tosha?"


(Celest): Amaru says, "I don't know His laws, Ciera."


(Celest): Ciera says, "Ok, just wondering."



(Celest): Amaru says, "I assume that He disapproves of slaughtering innocent
people."


(Celest): Amaru says, "But I could be wrong."


(Celest): Hajamin says, "Monks that train in fighting arts, and are not aiding
the cause of the Light, I see no reason for them to be protected. They are
obviously NOT helpless and in need of protection."

(Celest): You say, "Thank you, my Lord."

(Celest): Amaru says, "But why should they be killed?"

(Celest): You say, "I'm glad You could make that clear."


(Celest): Amaru says, "They are going about their daily business."


(Celest): Amaru says, "Untainted, peaceful."


(Celest): Hajamin says, "Someone that trains in deadly martial arts is
peaceful? That's a new one."


(Celest): You say, "They don't follow the Light, Amary, therefore, no
protection."

(Market): Yuniko says, "Alchemist for hire, ad 139 for prices."

(Celest): You say, "Like the merians in Bondero Bay, or wherever they are."

(Celest): You say, "Like the spectres."

(Celest): Amaru says, "But little children don't all follow the Light."

(Celest): You say, "It's ok to cause the deaths of innocents."

(Celest): You say, "As long as they dont follow the Light."

(Celest): Nucoras says, "I still do not like the excuses given to kill our
ancestors."

(Celest): You say, "They deserve death."

(Celest): Amaru says, "Goddess, what is this city coming to."

(Celest): Amaru says, "Rauros, enough sarcasm."
ct Ok

(Celest): You say, "Ok."

(Celest): Hajamin says, "Wow, you are good at twisting words, are you sure you
don't follow Raezon?"

(Celest): Hajamin says, "Lets try this again."

(Celest): Amaru says, "Quite sure."


(Celest): Hajamin says, "They study DEADLY martial arts, completely capable of
defending themselves."

(Celest): Aesyra says, "It's interesting that just become someone goes about
his 'daily business' makes them innocent. Finks and gnomes, Aslaran and
Krokani, Angels and Demons.. they all go about their 'daily business'. Are they
all innocent?"

(Celest): Hajamin says, "Therefore, they are NOT helpless and in need of
protection or special treatment."

(Celest): Amaru says, "Just because they are trained in martial arts, it does
not mean they need to be killed."

(Celest): Amaru says, "Killing for fun or gain is acceptable now?"

(Celest): You say, "Apparantly."

(Celest): Hajamin says, "That coming from your mouth is funny Amaru."

(Celest): Amaru says, "I only kill rational beings if they are tainted."

(Celest): Ciera says, "No one needs to be killed, it is not Celest's duty to
protect every single neutral creature in the entire basin, I'm pretty sure."
 

(Celest): Amaru says, "No, but it is mine to protect those of my race I am
sworn to protect. That is irrelevant."
 

(Celest): Hajamin says, "Ciera seems to understand a bit better."
 

(Celest): Aesyra says, "Apparently some think we should though, Ciera."
 

(Celest): Amaru says, "I'm disputing Diamante's actions, not my own."
 

(Celest): Amaru says, "He left peacefully at my objections, end of story."
 

(Celest): Aesyra says, "Celest has no law against it and also Diamante is not a
Celestian.. so what is the problem?"

(Celest): You say, "I think this is a matter or morals more than law."
 


(Celest): Amaru says, "Quite."

(Celest): You say, "Of morals, rather."
 


(Celest): You say, "Is it immoral to kill those weaker than us?"
 

(Celest): You say, "Simply for our gain?"
 


(Celest): Amaru says, "Absolutely damned well not."
 


(Celest): Hajamin says, "If it is, we cannot attack Glomdoring, ever."
 

(Celest): Nucoras says, "We use to have a law against killing sentient denizens
for no reason, I believe."
 


(Celest): You say, "Yes, but the Glomdoring is tainted, my Lord."
 

(Celest): Hajamin says, "But they are weaker than us..."
 


(Celest): Amaru says, "I sincerely hope this has nothing to do with the fact
that Diamante is trying to get Titan."
 

(Celest): Amaru says, "And those monks are good for experience."
 

(Celest): Aesyra says, "If you all absolutly refuse to kill for gain, why are
you not all at the second circle of experience? You should be.."

(Celest): You say, "But my lord... they are Tainted..."
 

(Celest): You say, "There are other ways to gain, besides killing, Aesyra."
 

(Celest): Amaru says, "Aesyra, killing creatures is different from killing
sentient, rational, thinking people."
 


(Celest): Amaru says, "Killing beasts on Astral is of course acceptable for our
gain."
 

(Celest): Hajamin says, "So no one you have ever slain was rational?"
 

(Celest): Ianthe says, "Although I myself would not kill them, I think that
simply because they are neutral doesn't not mean they are innocent or good."
 

(Celest): Amaru says, "I have killed rational people, but only for good
reason."
 

(Celest): Amaru says, "Not simply for my own benefit."
 

(Celest): Aesyra says, "I think Ianthe is one of the few who understand here."

(Celest): You say, "I cant say I have ever slain a rational person that wasnt
tainted or an enemy of the Light... but my memory fails me often, so this is
probably false."


(Celest): Aesyra says, "Not Tainted does not mean for the Light or 'good'
whatever you understand with that. Look at Serenwilde for an example, if the
Basin was all black and white we would not have any trouble with them and would
be one organisation instead of two."
 

(Celest): Amaru says, "Serenwilde goes against Celest's interests."
 

(Celest): Hajamin says, "But to make this clear, I have no laws for My Order
protecting someone that is capable of defending himself. If someone is slaying
a child, yes that is a problem."
 

(Celest): Visaeris says, "Not true Amaru."
 

(Celest): Amaru says, "There is a difference between protecting Celest's
interests and killing for our own interests."
 

(Celest): Ciera says, "They don't destroy the taint?"
 

(Celest): Visaeris says, "We need firewood."
 

(Celest): Visaeris says, "Lots of firewood."
 

(Celest): Amaru says, "I meant their government."
 

(Celest): Aesyra says, "But they are not tainted, Amaru. We should have a law
against fighting them."
 

(Celest): Visaeris says, "Oh, right."
 

(Celest): Amaru says, "That isn't what I said."
 

(Market): Luthe says, "Refilling."
 

(Celest): Iteor says, "A law against fighting Serenwilde?"
 

(Celest): Shamarah says, "What exactly is happening here?"
 


(Celest): Hajamin says, "Amaru telling Me I have to stop Diamante from
attacking monks in Tosha."
 

(Market): Jen says, "Anyone have any galingale for sale?"

(Celest): Amaru says, "I am absolutely not."
 

(Celest): Amaru says, "I simply wanted to know whether You disapproved."
 


(Celest): Hajamin says, "Funny, you said "Could you tell Diamante to stop
slaying them"."
 


(Celest): Amaru says, "That is a request, not saying 'You have to'"
 

(Celest): You say, "I believe it was me who asked that, Amaru."


(Celest): Tatezun says, "To be fair to amaru, Lord Hajamin, he DID have a
question mark at the end of that phrase."


(Celest): Hajamin says, "He requested that I tell him, he did not demand it."
 


(Celest): Amaru says, "I find it immoral that someone should kill a sentient,
thinking being like a monk of Tosha, for reasons of their own personal
advancement. That is all. The reason I was going to protect that monk was to do
with my allegiance to my race, not my belief that all neutral parties should be
protected from harm."
 

(Celest): Amaru says, "Just to make it clear."
 

(Celest): You say, "Soooo let me get this clear now. It's perfectly okay within
the boundaries of moral and law, we are after all moral beings, arent we, to
slay any being within the basin that isnt a follower of Light or assists in the
Light's interests, correct?"
 

(Celest): Ciera says, "If they train to fight, they should be aware of the
consequences, don't you think?"
 

(Celest): You say, "Feel free to correct me on that."
 

(Celest): Hajamin says, "Ciera just said what I was about to."
 

(Celest): Amaru says, "Someone learning how to fight means they deserve to be
killed?"
 

(Celest): Amaru says, "I am stunned by the logic."
 

 

(Market): Nymerya says, "Seeking refills."
 

(Celest): You say, "I thought monks trained in self defense."
 

(Celest): Nucoras says, "Then, that goes for us when we kill for no reason but
to train?"
 

(Celest): Aesyra says, "Why do you need laws on what is good and what not? Why
not use your own conscience for that?"
 

(Celest): You say, "Or does self defense translate to training to fight."
 

(Celest): Visaeris says, "I figure.. If they don't follow the Light, they've
made a decision."
 

(Celest): Hajamin says, "If they are helpless, I will not allow a member of My
Order to slay them. If they are capable of defending themselves and do not work
for Celest and the Light, I will not protect them."
 

(Celest): Amaru says, "I didn't say we needed laws."
 

(Celest): Visaeris says, "Regardless of whom it is. Be it monk, magnagoran, or
whatever."
 

(Celest): Amaru says, "Aesyra, you are imagining things again."
 

(Celest): Ianthe says, "I agree with Aesyra."
 

(Celest): Amaru says, "I didn't say we needed laws to say what is good and what
isn't."
 

(Celest): You say, "But my Lord Hajamin, what chance do these monks have
against Diamante?"
 

(Celest): Ceren says, "Well they just slew him, to be fair."
 

(Celest): You say, "I hardly think a monk could challenge the might of
Diamante."
 

(Celest): Amaru says, "Indeed. 'Helpless' is relative."
 

(Celest): Hajamin says, "But I think this is solved now, Amaru has stated his
opinions on it, and I have explained how things work for My Order. As for
Celest, that is a Council issue."
 

(Celest): Aesyra says, "Apparently a good one since they killed him, Rauros."
 

(Celest): Hajamin says, "Rauros, one just slew Diamante..."


(Celest): You say, "I see..."


(Celest): Hajamin says, "Now, Amaru I agree with your reasoning on wanting to
defend your race. I will not stop you from doing so, in a non-lethal manner. I
will ask that a member of Celest not slay a member of My Order."

(Celest): Visaeris says, "We need firewood."
 

(Celest): Visaeris says, "Lots of firewood."

That said, ya'll need to get yer arses in gear, and learn some hardcore roleplay.  Come on.  Think "Spanish Inquisition".

That's actually what we had envisioned Celest to be... instead we got Shallam 2.0 

I really got that feeling, and Erion was very much like that.  But that all went to hell.

Oh well.

I don't want to point fingers, but people see "Compassion" and want to be cuddle-buddies, and Lacostian, while I love Him to death, isn't really fit to be a leader for half of Celest. Simply His ideals clash with the concept of a Spanish Inquisition.

I don't think Lacostian has any effect on Celest. If he does, I do not see it. Geb actually dislikes that divine, because he allows tainted into his order. Geb still to this day does not understand why the Aquamancers keep him as their Patron.

That's actually what we had envisioned Celest to be... instead we got Shallam 2.0 

Know why Kalo killed dwarves? They CHOSE not to follow the ways of the Wilde. Poof, smoosh, dead. I find it hysterical some were trying that same arguement. <3

The Aquamancers need a Sea God!

And...



That 'Spanish Inquisition' attitude fits for Celest. Not the SW. I spent a few hours re-reading the histories and nowhere does it say that the Serens acted in such a way. It doesn't fit. Maybe Kalodan should move to Celest! Kill everyone in your way, you little badass you.

Off topic: Where the hell does the Serenguard fit in? Not one mention of them in the histories. I have come to the conclusion that Knighthood and Athletics came from the cities and spread into the forests. All original Serenguard were Paladin defects!

Okay, ignore that small rant.

(Celest): You say, "Is it immoral to kill those weaker than us?"
 

(Celest): You say, "Simply for our gain?"
 


(Celest): Amaru says, "Absolutely damned well not."
 


(Celest): Hajamin says, "If it is, we cannot attack Glomdoring, ever."
 

(Celest): Nucoras says, "We use to have a law against killing sentient denizens
for no reason, I believe."
 


(Celest): You say, "Yes, but the Glomdoring is tainted, my Lord."
 

(Celest): Hajamin says, "But they are weaker than us..."