Despite the fact that quite a few of you seem capable only of personal attacks. I recently had a idle thought related to the topic of Dreamweaving. And decided to pose this somewhat philosophical question.

Why is it that modern dreamweavers seem to be more adept at using dreamcraft offensively than the originator of the skillset?

Secondly, in response to you Elryn, I've always wondered why dream attacks go through shield. Currently, the skillset from what I've seen, is no where near as subtle as the helpfile leads one to believe.

Vestera the Dreamweaver

Perhaps the most curious of the Vernal Gods arose from the edifice of power known as the Bubbling Cauldron in the Ghalphalshi Swamps, a predominantly mugwump community from which Vestera originated. Interestingly, no one is quite certain what sex Vestera originated but certainly he or she never manifested such bodily conceits once transformed into a Vernal God.

Indeed, the form of Vestera was extremely ethereal and so insubstantial that mortals for the most part could not see this Vernal God. Unfortunately, this made Vestera all but ineffectual in direct combat with the Soulless God, and was extremely vulnerable to Kethuru and Zenos, who shared this out-of-phase from. In self-defense, Vestera developed great skills of illusions, able to hide from the Soulless or creating diversions or false images.

Despite not being effective in fighting the Soulless directly, Vestera had a tremendous impact in the Vernal Wars through interaction with mortals, visiting them in dreams and visions, inspiring architectural wonders, which included several edifices of power. While these citadels and strongholds could be counted as the most beautiful and splendid of the time, they were also able to withstand attacks of the Soulless, and certainly saved countless mortals.

Vestera is also credited for the development of the arcane skills of illusions and, most especially, dream crafting, for only in the dream state could mortals truly visit Vestera.

I wanna visit Vestera!

The real complaint with violet/kether isn't *precisely* that it doesn't instantly kill.  It's that it's the ONLY way to attack a dreambody, who can just... walk away. 

Just like a ghost eh?

1) I can't ghost.
2) Some of the time when someone ghosts, they're already damaged.  They're also off-eq for a bit, I think, so you can smack them a few times, right?  Maybe finishing them off.
3) If ways to entangle/hinder dreamweavers are made, they'd also work on ghosts, and you'd complain about that?

Mugwumps can get in two violets before the target is able to to move if he or she ghosts. Everyone else can get in one (assuming the person is on top of things and not lagging).

People use ghost to invade all the time without being damaged at all so that statement is a generalization that is a half-truth at best

You can already hinder dreamweavers: tumble, fly, climb trees, burrow, dive, scale, etc.

No, it's not half-true.  I thought their eq was longer than it was, but if someone ghosts mid-combat you have a chance of shooting them (there've been some logs of that on the forums, nay?).  Higher than getting a dreamweaver, though still pretty abysmal.  If you ghost outside of combat, yeah, you've got the same ability, just without the extra health from absinthe.

And I'd say your ways to hinder a dreamweaver are more along that "half truth at best" line.  That's not hindering the weaver at all, that's hindering yourself.  The weaver's still around, not even getting hit by violet/kether if you run, and when someone does violet/kether they can just waltz away.

Most people tend to ghost upon entering combat if its too much for them such as getting summoned or wisped. This means they ghost with full health. Furthermore, I don't see how you can even compare this to dreamweaving as Ur'guard (Nihilists being the exception) get surge so they can ghost even at half health and still have far more left than 3-4 violets till take down.

I kill both ghosts and dreamweavers with Violet frequently and I can assure you that most Dreamweavers tend to go in 2-3 violets. Furthermore, it isn't like you can use absinthe often. It makes you drunk (obliterated drunk) in about 3 sips.

And finally, if you are to perform such commands as wake: wake, sip mana, sip health, outr/eat kafe then you are massively hindering them considering that a dreamweaver uses 300-600 willpower per attack. If you have low mana, other options like metawake are out, but those furthermore disrupt a dreamweaver's chance. And while changing elevation may seem like "hindering" yourself, you are cannot be hindered if you aren't attacking it... so what does it matter?

The real complaint with violet/kether isn't *precisely* that it doesn't instantly kill.  It's that it's the ONLY way to attack a dreambody, who can just... walk away.  You can't hinder/slow the dreamform, there's no dream-web.  Even if four people violet/kether, as long as you're on balance (and drank absinthe) you can just float away.

This leads to the only way to kill someone in dreamform being a divine who can insta-cast, or a ton of folk with a lot of lessons in high/low magic all hitting at the exact same time.

Unless the dreamweaver's really dense and just stands there, at least.

If you're doing something that prevents you from being able to attack, you ARE hindering yourself.  The advantage is that you're no longer being attacked, but you've just left the dreamweaver sitting around to attack somebody else.

And what does it matter if you can't use absinthe often?  From what I've read, if you have any in your system at all when you go into dreamform, it buffs your health.  You never NEED more than one sip.  And one sip's going to be close to wearing off by the time you get willpower back.

And how does waking up hinder them at all?  It prevents them from using their more damaging attacks, but they *are still attacking and still able to leave at will*.