Divine Intervention

by Vix

Back to Common Grounds.

Ashteru2005-10-24 00:53:27
QUOTE(Gregori @ Oct 24 2005, 12:38 AM)
You apparently missed the entire point. Serenwilde -has- been raided, -is- raided, and still Lisaera does not rain fire and brimstone down on the people doing it. She has just as much reason to as Viravain, but stands back because players should deal with players.

Granted you may not have been online when all the dreamweaver attacks were happening doesn't mean they didn't, but the fact that "you only remember twice" in 10 ig years, is not proof that it didn't happen. It only suggests that you either misremember, are obfuscating the truth, or were not around when alot of it happened.

Serenwilde's raiding of the Catacombs has nothing to do with Magnagora at all anyways. The gar-dead are not Magnagoran territory. This has been said by not only themselves but by the Divine. We have just as much right to hunt there as anyone. The fact we have to kill anyone there so we can hunt peacefully is not a raid.
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Though, what happens in those so called Serenwilde raids? Some trees are chopped down and at the first sign of danger, the raiders are gone.
In Glom raids, the raiders take some heads with them. Or better a lot of heads.
And again, Viravain is the goddess of a young, very young commune who is constantly thwapped.
Lisaera is the goddess of a commune that PROVED that they can reach things if they work together.

Look at it this way, Viravain is the Mother of some little child that's constantly beat up in school, robbed blind and all.
Lisaera is the mother of the average pupil, getting sometimes into fights, sometimes winning, sometimes losing.

Okay, how many trans Dreamweavers does Glomdoring have? I can think of...none. Sobran was a Dreamweaver, but I doubt he was trans. So, what could they do? Fling some motes, probably not even illusion or so.

And Magnagora considers the catacoms as theirs. That's all that counts. It's like Serenwilde considers neutral Faethorn theirs. They'll fight for it and they'll take it as a raid against themselves if it is raided.


Oh, and I didn't miss your points, it's unfair to say that I didn't understand something if you just missinterpreted my post.
Nokraenom2005-10-24 00:54:22
QUOTE(Malicia @ Oct 23 2005, 06:37 PM)
Elryn and Narsrim do not raid Glomdoring incessantly. Narsrim gets in, does his thing, gets out. He's rarely after a person, so much as he's after the aspects and any fae bound in shadow. He's following his rp. Oh, but when he does, he's considered a 'griefer'.  Glomdoring is mainly frustrated because of his efficiency. He does not raid any one area for hours and hours, killing people over and over. He just gets in, gets away before he's caught and everyone there pulls their hair out in frustration.
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Nobody (in this thread) seems to be suggesting that Elryn or Narsrim are griefers, nor that they should not RP, even if that RP does seem to dictate killing others as its main expression. Raiding and killing commune members does detract from potential teachers for new players in the Glom, though, and it'd be pretty hard to argue otherwise. So, in such a young nation, I don't think it's really wrong at all that Vira is killing the occasional raider.

Glom will sort itself out eventually, but they seem to have a slew of internal problems that need to settle themselves first. That sort of development takes time, and takes a longer time if they're fending off raiders fairly often, or raising Aspects all the time, etc.
Ashteru2005-10-24 00:54:22
QUOTE(Diamante @ Oct 24 2005, 12:53 AM)
Except Eiru.......oh and a titan tongue.gif
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muhahaha.gif
Unknown2005-10-24 00:59:01
QUOTE(Malicia @ Oct 24 2005, 10:09 AM)
Well, I did not mean to imply that the Glomdoring characters are useless. What I'm saying is, if our Gods do the work, what would be the use for players? Why should I invest hundreds of dollars into my skills if my God will step up and defend me? Glomdoring, Serenwilde and Celest have suffered a great deal. Glomdoring has a powerful ally and two Gods that have consistently stepped in to hurt any offenders. It's overpowered!  smile.gif
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Heh yeah I see what you mean. But, if it was so overpowered, we wouldn't still manage to cause them a little trouble from time to time biggrin.gif .
Tsakar2005-10-24 01:01:08
QUOTE(Malicia @ Oct 23 2005, 05:37 PM)
And dear god. You people need to stop exaggerating. Elryn and Narsrim do not raid Glomdoring incessantly. Narsrim gets in, does his thing, gets out. He's rarely after a person, so much as he's after the aspects and any fae bound in shadow. He's following his rp. Oh, but when he does, he's considered a 'griefer'.  Glomdoring is mainly frustrated because of his efficiency. He does not raid any one area for hours and hours, killing people over and over. He just gets in, gets away before he's caught and everyone there pulls their hair out in frustration.
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He's earned it, many times over, in many different ways, that don't include simply raiding or killing aspects/what have you
Diamante2005-10-24 01:01:32
Gah, seriously , GLOMDORING IS NOT THAT YOUNG ANYMORE. lusternia just hit a year, I came back in mid-april *counts, march april may, june, july, augus, semptember, october!" that right there is what, 7 months? out of the 12 lusty has been around? and glomdoring was here before I came back. Sooooo how long until glomdoring comes of age? another year? cause seriously, the "were a fledgling commune" act is getting old. Yes, you are a weaker commune, primarily due to most of your players not having money/level/systems/will to live, and we do beat up on you, but dont say the were young thing. IG, diamante used to raid all the time, but he's grown up and not so mean. Theres so much you guys could do. Like ummmmm, not turn away almost every fighter that tries to join. I inquired, got the big stfu, kaervas joined, got kicked out, yeah its your RP to hate us, whatever, but dont complain when this rp leaves glomdoring in the dust, if you cant make the fighters yourself, and are going to turn everyone who wants to join away, and instead rely upon a divine to do the work, then you resign yourself to your own fate sad.gif I'll still keep rooting for the little guy, but its really time to start thinking about glomdoring's future, and decide when and how to slip it in your RP to have decent fighters other than murphy, ethelon, tharruk, and hopefully now eiru, cause 4 guys dont make a commune
Ashteru2005-10-24 01:03:55

QUOTE(Malicia @ Oct 24 2005, 12:37 AM)

How do you raid the catas? It's a profitable hunting ground. It's already been stated that there's no real reason anyone else can or can't hunt there and so, we try and are attacked for doing so. Essentially, we're DEFENDING in the catas. 
biggrin.gif Yeah, I cleared that up. It's more that Mag considers it his, like Seren considers neutral faethorn his.
And dear god. You people need to stop exaggerating. Elryn and Narsrim do not raid Glomdoring incessantly. Narsrim gets in, does his thing, gets out. He's rarely after a person, so much as he's after the aspects and any fae bound in shadow. He's following his rp. Oh, but when he does, he's considered a 'griefer'.  Glomdoring is mainly frustrated because of his efficiency. He does not raid any one area for hours and hours, killing people over and over. He just gets in, gets away before he's caught and everyone there pulls their hair out in frustration. I actually never implied that Elryn was on a hack 'n slash mania (though the little bugger dreamweaves a LOT), but I mostly went off of the one time where Narsrim and Munsia boasted that they took the Alembic in Glomdoring for the d'centes. Or when Narsrim sat there and wisped Glomos in a secret room in Glomdoring nearly no one knew. Or all the times they go in, mulch trees and kill some persons while doing it.

Do I have to remind people of how -long- those Faethorn raids would go on? Glomdoring gets all big and bad when they'd have Magnagora behind them, raiding for hours on end.  Words can't describe how time consuming it was. Oh, but we're picking on them when we hit back when their big brothers aren't gathered at their side, right? Yarr, I can remember those faethorn raids...a PAIN....

The Serenwilde has never had a 'big brother'. Celest and Serenwilde were two beat up little brothers that held hands for awhile. A long while. Not so much now.
More like a gay couple that broke off now.

Delport was raided every day up until they finally lost it to Magnagora. Recently. Every other day, orcs are released into the villages, a hostile manuever, if you ask me. No one is innocent. There were constant raids on Celestia and on the city itself, by Glomdoring and Magnagora. Why raid if you don't want to be raided?
I'll go with an old answer...just because some Glomdoringers raid doesn't mean that the commune as a whole raided. So you should pick and hunt those that participated and not the whole commune

The only reason that the raids on Faethorn became less frequent was because it was made so that geomancers couldn't meld there. A good move. It forced the Blacktalons to step up and actually DO something. I can only agree there. Though there aren't that many BT out there.

Lastly, it's in OUR rp to move against Glomdoring. If Viravain's actions are justified by her 'rp' then our stance should be respected as well. Yep, and you can do that with the risk of getting the wrath of Viravain on you
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Malicia2005-10-24 01:03:57
biggrin.gif Mad snuggles to you, Dia.



And Ashteru...
DON'T DRINK AND POST.


-your responses were very amusing though.
Ashteru2005-10-24 01:06:16
QUOTE(Diamante @ Oct 24 2005, 01:01 AM)
Gah, seriously , GLOMDORING IS NOT THAT YOUNG ANYMORE. lusternia just hit a year, I came back in mid-april *counts, march april may, june, july, augus, semptember, october!" that right there is what, 7 months? out of the 5 lusty has been around? and glomdoring was here before I came back. Sooooo how long until glomdoring comes of age? another year? cause seriously, the "were a fledgling commune" act is getting old. Yes, you are a weaker commune, primarily due to most of your players not having money/level/systems/will to live, and we do beat up on you, but dont say the were young thing. IG, diamante used to raid all the time, but he's grown up and not so mean. Theres so much you guys could do. Like ummmmm, not turn away almost every fighter that tries to join. I inquired, got the big stfu, kaervas joined, got kicked out, yeah its your RP to hate us, whatever, but dont complain when this rp leaves glomdoring in the dust, if you cant make the fighters yourself, and are going to turn everyone who wants to join away, and instead rely upon a divine to do the work, then you resign yourself to your own fate sad.gif I'll still keep rooting for the little guy, but its really time to start thinking about glomdoring's future, and decide when and how to slip it in your RP to have decent fighters other than murphy, ethelon, tharruk, and hopefully now eiru, cause 4 guys dont make a commune
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Yeah man, the thing about the fighters and so was something I couldn't understand either.*shrug*
But to the other point, Glomdoring had never really the chance to grow up...it got stuck in that phase, and it'll need much time and care for it to grow out of it.
Ashteru2005-10-24 01:07:03
QUOTE(Malicia @ Oct 24 2005, 01:03 AM)
DON'T DRINK AND POST.
-your responses were very amusing though.
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I am not drunk for a change. What made that reaction, I thought I argued semi-good and even tried to once. ~_~
Malicia2005-10-24 01:11:25
Just messing with you.
Kharne2005-10-24 01:12:08
Half of you's arent even referring to the first question doh.gif
Exarius2005-10-24 01:12:54
QUOTE(Cairam @ Oct 23 2005, 06:25 PM)
She created Glomdoring, it's Her's. Why shouldn't She defend it?
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Has this alread been answered? Dunno. Long thread. Simple question. Simple answer.

The players, not the admins, are the stars of any MUD.

Admin run gods directly intervening in player conflicts is the same as a D&D dungeon master narrating all the important action while his players sit back and watch.

Why are we wasting countless hours carefully balancing the mortals' skills and powers when they don't actually decide a blessed thing?
Ashteru2005-10-24 01:13:01
QUOTE(Malicia @ Oct 24 2005, 01:11 AM)
Just messing with you.
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Ashy's tired...I don't get that much that late....time for me to go to bed.

Don't say any things with whom I'll look outdated if I quote them tomorrow!
Shikari2005-10-24 01:21:16
Alright.

Time for a little intervention before this gets out of hand and into personal attacks, which it is now bordering on.

The topic that's being discussed is quite interesting.

Glomdoring has been an interesting case. From its inception, it's had quite a low number of players in the commune (I frequently note around eight members of Glomdoring out of seventy or so players in the game) compared to other organisations, and it's also suffered near constant conflict on a level that perhaps only Celest can equal.

A concern of mine is that there have been situations where things have, from a purely out-of-character viewpoint, been taken too far. Things like groups of raiders sitting a room away from the nexus, and killing people that have just recently conglutinated, and so on. Things like that, which could have been prevented by player action, but weren't for whatever reason, and so on.

Glomdoring has improved, and it's thanks to the efforts of those players who have come into the organisation and stuck with it. However, it is still relatively unable to defend itself, although it has rapidly been improving recently.

Because this is a game, people should be enjoying themselves with relative freedom. It is quite hard for any inexperienced player to enjoy themselves in an environment where they are being killed and raided if not on an hourly basis, then on a daily one. Relatively few experienced players will enjoy such situations, just as relatively few players enjoy Divine interacting with them in a way that results in a death they have little or no control over.

This isn't a threat, and nor is it an official statement of admin policy. It is just a comment on what I see happening in the arguement in this thread.
Morik2005-10-24 01:22:21
QUOTE(Diamante @ Oct 24 2005, 09:01 AM)
Gah, seriously , GLOMDORING IS NOT THAT YOUNG ANYMORE. lusternia just hit a year, I came back in mid-april *counts, march april may, june, july, augus, semptember, october!" that right there is what, 7 months? out of the 12 lusty has been around? and glomdoring was here before I came back. Sooooo how long until glomdoring comes of age? another year? cause seriously, the "were a fledgling commune" act is getting old. Yes, you are a weaker commune, primarily due to most of your players not having money/level/systems/will to live, and we do beat up on you, but dont say the were young thing. IG, diamante used to raid all the time, but he's grown up and not so mean. Theres so much you guys could do. Like ummmmm, not turn away almost every fighter that tries to join. I inquired, got the big stfu, kaervas joined, got kicked out, yeah its your RP to hate us, whatever, but dont complain when this rp leaves glomdoring in the dust, if you cant make the fighters yourself, and are going to turn everyone who wants to join away, and instead rely upon a divine to do the work, then you resign yourself to your own fate sad.gif I'll still keep rooting for the little guy, but its really time to start thinking about glomdoring's future, and decide when and how to slip it in your RP to have decent fighters other than murphy, ethelon, tharruk, and hopefully now eiru, cause 4 guys dont make a commune
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Young is the wrong word. Immature, as in the sense of "not yet mature" rather than "arrogant little snots" (because, well, every city/commune /has/ said immature little snots..)

Glomdoring is still immature. The balance of power is still far, far stably over with Magnagora/Serenwilde. Thats why I believe its fine for Hajamin/Viravain to step in occasionally. Its not good for them to step in too often as that may create a nanny-state, expecting Divine help when its "too tough". But there's a difference between "too tough" and "screw this, this place isn't fun."

We're charged with having fun.

They're charged with making the realm interesting for everyone, not just the winning team.
Unknown2005-10-24 01:28:44
Keep in mind there is another alternative to having Divine Deus Ex Machina interventions...

Achaea's PK Laws.

Achaea's PK Laws were setup when the playerbase couldn't control their baser instincts and would be aggressive to the point of extremes.

I for one would rather have an aggressive Divine who is RPing well help enforce the peace than the laws that Guido once posted here applied. If players can't apply a little bit of temperance to their PvP actions, that's what will end up happening here.
Narsrim2005-10-24 01:32:59
QUOTE(Shikari @ Oct 23 2005, 09:21 PM)

Glomdoring has been an interesting case. From its inception, it's had quite a low number of players in the commune (I frequently note around eight members of Glomdoring out of seventy or so players in the game) compared to other organisations, and it's also suffered near constant conflict on a level that perhaps only Celest can equal.

A concern of mine is that there have been situations where things have, from a purely out-of-character viewpoint, been taken too far. Things like groups of raiders sitting a room away from the nexus, and killing people that have just recently conglutinated, and so on. Things like that, which could have been prevented by player action, but weren't for whatever reason, and so on.
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This isn't even possible. When you die and conglutinate like this, you come back with Grace, which lasts 15 minutes.

QUOTE(Shikari @ Oct 23 2005, 09:21 PM)
Glomdoring has improved, and it's thanks to the efforts of those players who have come into the organisation and stuck with it. However, it is still relatively unable to defend itself, although it has rapidly been improving recently.

Because this is a game, people should be enjoying themselves with relative freedom. It is quite hard for any inexperienced player to enjoy themselves in an environment where they are being killed and raided if not on an hourly basis, then on a daily one. Relatively few experienced players will enjoy such situations, just as relatively few players enjoy Divine interacting with them in a way that results in a death they have little or no control over.
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Players != guards. You once threw me into the Divine Havens to try and lock me up when I was bashing guards in Ethereal Glomdoring. No one was defending so you came to defend them. You also created lovely diversion in the Catacombs the other month too after Richter was slain. People who venture into the Catacombs period aren't "inexperienced players."
Unknown2005-10-24 01:34:29
Just to make sure it is clear: Elryn never tried to convert any newbies or novices (I did once mistakenly start saying 'hello' to an ebonguard novice, but told him what was going on after I realized I'd misread his title and then left him alone).

So, no to the newbies.

Second, I had -no- problem with Viravain conducting the fabulous RP she is known for in deterring Elryn from his preaching. The times I died to her where all because of disrespect, or too much defiance. It also worked out well in the end because I essentially don't raid Glomdoring at all anymore, unless someone who just raided us flees back there.

Shikari... I guess he tries to do the same thing.


I do dislike that Gods appear when you have valid reasons for attacking someone, but I guess that is their prerogative.

I think all our problems would be solved if Glomdoring was Gloriana though. tongue.gif quickexit.gif
Malicia2005-10-24 01:35:23
How can you kill people who conglut over and over if they're graced? If they reject grace and attack a raider..well, there you have it. No one is being killed/conglut/killed in a series of actions.


And I played in Achaea for almost four years, Phred. It's very possible to raid. There's -plenty- of raiding. It's the ONLY way to pk there. How it goes is, if you raid, you can't attack anyone until they attack you. Of course, if you're in enemy territory, you'll be attacked. If you're attacking a city denizen and a player defends, you can then legally defend yourself. It's the same thing Narsrim does.