Moondancer abuses Divine Grace to steal from somebody knowing that somebody cannot even push him out of the room.

Moondancers eat that guy with ketchup for being disrespectful (*cough*abusign it to get an unfair advantage when it's clearly a protective thing *cough*) to a Divine gift, same probably as if they found a moondancer making the Mother dance naked for money in the middle of Celest (that would be disrespecting the Fae gifts).

Moondacers treat their idiots and thieves on a case by case basis. The basin sees how they do it allrigth, and don't say they allow such cheap tactics. Everybody happy but the original moondancer.

Lisaera comes around and is happy to have one less decision to take.

It's all the same, you're just ABusing roleplay reasons to get your way and even justify it, graced theft.

The fact Narsrim absolutely cannot grasp, is that merely having an IC reason for an act, does NOT make it alright!

Every single action possible can be justified IC in a world like Lusternia, you should use roleplay to enchance gaming experience, not abuse it to cause as much grief as you can, just to gloat about it afterwards while justifying it with any roleplay rubbish you can come up with.

I don't always agree with Singollo, but when he said:



I can only agree to the fullest, but I'm sure you don't agree, what else would you have left to justify your bull with?

It's not like we're talking about raiding or jumping here, we're talking about abusing grace to rob a bloody stockroom.

I really, really, really hope the Divine react by making Moonbeam an aggressive act. We seem to be wanting them to handle everything, and that's the best way for them to handle it. Keeps it from ever being abused again, if they consider it abuse (which they seem to do). It'll also horribly screw us in peaceful villages, as it was our biggest advantage, but no Moondancer would be able to whine about it, because we truly would have brought it upon ourselves.

Meh. I hope the divine punish the crap out of him for abusing grace, and get rid of grace all together. It just bugs me, how often it's abused for conflict quests, village influencing, and stealing.

However, I don't expect nor want the Moondancers to punish him for it. It goes against their roleplay, which is crappy, and shouldn't be forced onto player organizations for something that would otherwise be fine. If Lisaera gave me a car and I went and ran over some tainted people and screwed up her car, she should be mad at me - the Hartstone might not be happy, but they don't punish people for running over tainted people. Why should they now?

Narsrim... Where in the game world do you see that death is worse than stealing?

If its a matter of opinion, don't say its an OOC concept.

I find it hard to believe that anyone really agrees with your argument and not just your results.

I take it that when you see someone with the favour of the divine you won't kill them because thats for the divine to worry about? How about defiling shrines?

What makes you think that the grace of the gods comes from every single god. The gods don't seem to agree on anything as a collective unit.

Your arguements are so wrong, I can't even contemplate where to start.

Divine Grace is a gift of the Fates - or perhaps Estarra. I'm thinking Fates, myself. Divine Favours, Shrines etc are the gift of any single divine, or perhaps multiple divines. Grace is something else. Don't try to compare them.

Fates, Estarra, Divine?

So Narsrim wants only the Fates or Estarra to deal with this? He wants it to change its name so that he can let his charachter handle it differently?

What type of nonsense is this?

Its either something you want to deal with, or its not. All this round about excuses as to why your all such good people but your just can't take care of it, is just silly.

As Cwin said, expect to be stolen from and don't expect anyone to do anything about it. If we used logic like this in the real world, America and the USSR would have blown eachother up by now.


I'm still trying to see what happened in game that makes you think an individual death is so important. Landantine still exists after how many hundreds if not thousands of years? Your death is just another cycle in your life isn't it?

I find it odd to mention that life has phases of evil, and at the same time say that one death is such an important thing while working for years to attain something is less important.

How on earth can you be sure that you'll come back? RPly, I mean... Every single time I die, the Fates have a good ol'debate about me.. and I can't be sure that the 'don't cut yet' argument will win for ever..

Furthermore, the ordinary mortal is hardly comparable to Ladantine, who is not brought back by the fates, but by good, hard, mortal work, combined with the evil determination of a mage so powerful he can never be properly killed.

So a novice abuses (yes, it is abuse) the Grace of the Gods in order to steal... and you decide to wait for Divine judgement?

Are you morons, or do you just OOCly enjoy griefing people?

Have you told a divine - any divine - about this? Are you so certain IG that divine Grace is monitored constantly by the Gods, or whether it's just a brief blessing for those who die and need to get from the Portal to their home?

And BTW, it's perfectly possible to be a grieving asshole IG and justify it with roleplay. Hell, if I wasn't inhibited by OOC sensibilities, Kymir'd be out killing Seren novices and non-combatants this very moment. I don't do that because OOC enjoyment of the game > RP. If this kind of shite continues I might decide to rethink that.

My charachter has never seen anybody who has walked through the portal of fate die without choosing to.

Whenever a village is wiped of every man woman and child, the fates appear to be willing to reseed the population.

If a friend of mine ever does die and the fates decide to not bring him back, then I will begin to question my own importance, but untill then it doesn't seem like such an important issue, compared to other things that go wrong for me. (Like loosing all my bromide vials)

And the question is not wheather or not I will come back, the question is will the person I have killed come back.

It would be interesting if once in a while the fates said "Sorry, your not needed now, we will review your importance again in 2 days." And then you can't log in for 2 hours

AHA. SO YOU'RE KYMIR. Now there's no guilt in hunting you down and killing you. <3

If you kill a lot Seren novices, I imagine the divine will step in. However, Magnagora probably won't. The action itself is not WRONG by Seren standards - it was the means (Grace) that he did it which we, as players, find morally reprehensive. The Moondancers, however, are very conservative - they don't give a damn about Tainted Ones, and should probably be throwing him a parade. However, if the divine were to say, "Nah, we ain't touchin' this one." then I imagine the Dancers would bend RP to deal with it appropriately.

However, Magnagora and Glomdoring have abused grace to do so many things that bug the hell out of us, why should we punish someone from doing something that bugs them?

Just playing devil's advocate - in all honesty, I hope the kid gets shrubbed and site banned. However, I'm bugged that you're all expecting the Dancers to do a 360 on their roleplay for it.

Especially because you're telling them to do so over the Forums.

1) Vitae. 2) Conglutinate. I rarely visit the fates (because I don't raid or fight in neutral prime territory). This means that nearly every death I have I can be assured that *I WILL RETURN*. The vitae saves me, or my nexus saves me and restores my corpse. So, to me, stealing everything I own is a heck of a lot worse than a death in which I am 100% positive I will be restored from.

Now, you're right, praying is a different matter.

I kinda meant praying. It was kinda implied...

Yeah, but your comment... to quote... was "How on earth can you be sure that you'll come back? RPly, I mean... Every single time I die, the Fates have a good ol'debate about me.. and I can't be sure that the 'don't cut yet' argument will win for ever.."

RPly, I am 100% sure I will come back because my nexus or vitae saves me. RPly. There *is* no visit to the Fates, there *is* no debate about whether my thread will be cut- I am simply reformed. You can't leave these out when you're discussing death, because they can happen a lot as long as you utilize them correctly.

Hey hey no getting off-topic, we're busy bashing the Moondancers for roleplaying too much here!

Just for the record, I've been pushing for an IC guild-dispensed punishment.
Not my fault noone listens

It so is your fault, Laysus. So is.

So someone abuses Grace, and Moonbeam should be changed?

Seems to me like most people are asking Grace to be changed because someone abused Moonbeam. I guess you could see it either way - or maybe that's just me.