The point was that there are several issues that arise from normal grace and it would be best to just wipe them all out with one swift blow.

Voron explained away what he did in detail, listing exactly why his theft was noble and just, hurting our enemies for the gain of the Coven. Then a few days later, he tried to steal from Celestians (including Lord Hajamin's order shop), and when asked why, he said he needed more gold. He was rather swiftly kicked from the Coven and Commune, and will probably be enemied in the near future.

Moral of the story: don't be such a voron, it isn't vuch appreciated.


EDIT: Regarding the grace issue, I still think the items should be returned, but others disagree >_<

Ah, to spend hours and days trying to figure something, only to have persons involved blithely jump forward and disregard things said and limits, even if only temporarily, established.

Why? I direct you to this as possible reasons.

Yea. And if someone is stealing from city/commune shop, just do like Aesyra did on CT.
(Celest): Aesyra says, "Voron is to be hunted and killed on sight."

After few deaths he wont be want to steal anymore.

Here is log from his failed attempt to steal from my shop.

Notice that we were not AFK. We just didnt noticed his moonbeaming. I never maked trigger for it, i didnt need to fight with any Serenwilder.
We were busy changing bins and policies as i cased to run Armoury and from few minutes it was Lord Hajamin Order shop. This guy had bad luck.
And was stupid and started from runes
Most likely cose there were around 200 runes, heh.

Someone remind me to enlist another Moondancer and grab the moonbeam message to post to help the unobservant, so they can make a thing to color it or something to be noticed? Or some other Moondancer do so before I do, as I need to sleep now?

Narsrim,

As a certain arrogant, pompous dick-weed once said to me, "Learn to read." And for the record, it's perfectly possible to revere something without emulating it or even respecting its actions. Methrenton and many combat-involved Celestines revere Raziela: do they go around preaching love and pacifism? Does they even think tainted things deserve love and pacifism?

Do they even think. Not does they. Crikeys. Learn to form proper sentences!

All of these Celestines who revere Raziela aren't asking fighters be punished.

Don't they?
Some of them actually commented on some fighters being too fighterish.

Here we go. If you see the following, move if you don't want a Moon user coming to join you in the next 6-12 seconds:

A beam of moonlight comes down from the sky and bathes you in light.

Thanks Tsuki.

And now i will be ready!

Come you nast thievs i only get 1% for Voron!

Me Next me next! we will see who wins that!

I've been in Muds where they don't afford their newbies any protection, it makes it a hard, hard world, where the newbies get steped on, and crushed, often.

Grace, not innocence.

Blah, I still remember hearing about the novice that would slaughter others in the novice zones in Aetolia. Imagine not being able to recommend a novice to Newton because they may get PKed (which is HORRIBLY tramatic to someone just starting out: I know if I died to pk in the first week of ever mudding I would never have stayed).

Perhaps Innocence might need to be tweaked to make sure it's not casualy abusable (and people who plan hard to use it can be Admin handled) but overall, we can keep it. Perhaps Graduation=nonInnocent.

Normal Grace, though, I say 30 seconds when you pray, 10 after a arena strike (to avoid that last minute hit some people do when frantic) and perhaps remove it on a Conglut (by skill or event like Village fights). Given how easy it is to get home (even if you have NO skills, you can use the Manses to travel home) and how safe home generaly is (though arguable with Glomdoring I guess) we don't need more than that.

How typical. The quote you opted to selected was among a minority from Shorlen, I believe who was upset about the entire situation and wasn't involved in the discussion that Tsuki and I had with Voron. I don't even believe the quote you selected (which must have been difficult as you just skipped over everything Tsuki wrote) wasn't even tagged properly... I imagine because the context of the quote was present from where it was pulled and by removing said context, it was more appealing to your argument, but alas, cheap tricks aren't going to get you anywhere.

And from what I understand of Raziela, she is the sort who feels love and pacifism are both tools of peace and combat.

It's been over a week, have the items been returned to Jadryga? Has the culprit been punished ICly and IP-banned?

We've dealt with him from our end and washed our hands of it. The items, we have in storage still as far as I know.

Then what stops you from gathering the last bits of decency left and returning them to their owner? And don't say roleplay now..

Roleplay might not stop them, but the items being back in Voron's possession would.

Narsrim.