I personally despise theft as well, of whatever sort. It is the worst form of griefing in my personal opinion, at least with things like harassment you can issue or snub. With Avenger and Karma, you can't also repeatedly kill someone without any repercussions, but you can continously steal from someone as long as you don't have suspect on the person.

I think "stealing" pilgrims and scholars shouldn't be possible anyway. Not only is it poor sportsmanship, it's not realistic.

me: Come with me!

Scholars: Sure!

*mountkicks newbie into another room*

They should recognize you for a minute or two afterwards, and re-follow automatically.

But on topic, griefing is too broad. I feel that people who kill me once or twice (based on the fact that I don't initiate conflict) are griefing in some situations, but in others, they had reasons (some with weak ones though).

I think the idea Estarra put forth is a good one, and I like the idea of Phred's common sense help file as well. The norns are not played by the rp-gods, so there wouldn't be any of the in-game bias as to what is extreme griefing or not. I think most of you are ignoring/not reading Vivarian/Estarra's posts fully and are missing the words EXTREME/EXCESSIVE griefing in reguards to the administration stepping in in the first place.

One of the things I really like about Lusternia is that there are no real PK rules, and I certainly wouldn't want to see any implemented. I think that the karma/avenger system work well for almost all cases, and in those that they don't really work, you can generally get your city/communemates behind you to do a little retribution action.

This administrative punishment would only be for that have gone WAY over the top, and have used every means neccessary to cause someone to leave the game.

The problem with a RP court or whatnot is that you can honesty come up with an RP BS reason to do anything, it doesn't necessarily make it right.

This sort of administrative action has really been done/tested in isolated cases, and the warnings/questioning of motives has always been fair and unbiased.

I know that when Marcalo was killing tons of Serens a while back, he was questioned by the administration about his motivation and he was also asked to lay off certain people because it was coming close to griefing. He did so.

In conclusion: I am FOR Estarra's idea of policing excessive griefers. I am FOR a help scroll such as the one that Phred suggested. I am AGAINST any recoding/changing of the quests, and extensive Pk rules/or IC court-type system.

Well it's kinda pathetic how Magnagora is killing for scholars now

I'm for a system like this.

It isn't like every time there is a raid, the admins will have a group huddle and decide that someone is a terrible griefer. If it is worthy of the admins attention, odds are, it's pretty serious already. No one is stopping you from releasing gorgogs or the ship or something every once in a while... but if it gets to the point of just driving away players, the admins should step in.

Meh, it's been said already. Anywho. I'm FOR this idea.

Time can't really be a consideration, that would not be fair to those in varying timezones and those who just tend to keep odd hours.

Please, will you just, yanno, shut up?

Break out the torture devices: Kaervas and Aesyra are in for some pain, the dirty novice stealers.

Why would doing actions that annoy and harm novices not be considered griefing. Novices are the segment of the population that is least able to protect itself. Performing aggressive acts against them would constitute griefing in my mind, because it is such acts that may dissuade new players from continuing their association with the game.

Novices are the most at risk..most are new to the realms. Especially now, as we have such an influx.

I remember when I was a really active teacher in Serenwilde I would get reports all the time about novices being harrased for where they lived by other novices and FULL MEMBERS of the Basin.

(unnamed victim): (unnamed victim) for no reason at all was insulted for being a Moondancer and part of the Commune. An unknown member of Magnagora approched (unnamed victim) and started to call him Moondancer scum, (unnamed victim) was trying new abilities out and learning the basics of Lusternia when this happened and did not catch the name, after this no other comments from the unknown person. Tysica, a member of Magnagora, Nihilist if remembered correctly, approched (unnamed victim) and repeated the Moondancer scum slur, also mentioned (unnamed full member) and how he 'raped and killed Queen' Im guessing that the Queen mentioned is Maeve of the Fae. (unnamed novice) also tried to perform an attack on Proclivus. (unnamed novice), a Shadowdancer of the Glomdoring, bothered Proclivus for being a Moondancer as well.

This is just one case, and its really old. Sorry to point fingers at Magnagora and Glomdoring but thats where the reported people were said to be from. Im also refusing to say the names, if you really want them you can ask Diamondais. She might release them, she might not. It depends on who asks and for what reasons.

Im sure that Celest, Magnagora and Glomdoring recieve problems like this towards their novices from both novices and full members.

That TOTALLY wasn't me.

I swear it.

I don't ever remember attacking graced novices.

Just the ungraced ones.

But that sure sounds like something I'd do.

Stupid dancers.

I don't believe their high-ranked status excuses the behavior from either of them. In fact, I think it holds them to a higher standard of behavior. It's disappointing that either of them would do this. I wasn't aware of Kaervas doing this, but Aesyra has already admitted to such in this thread.

It's a sad day when Demigods and Titans are getting their jollies ruining the hard work of newbies.

Ixion, aesyra, Kaervas, Balizar, Kahazul...

Um? That report was before your time..

I didnt mean to point fingers only at Magnagora and Glomdoring, that was just one of the last reports I kept... To any who may take offense.




Before Ye of Little Faith's time

i'd like to know without reading the 6 pages of off topic crap, what the admin are seeing as the problem.


By this i'm not asking anyone to define greifing but more asking what the main type of griefing is.

Are we worried about 1v1 greifing? or is it more organisational griefing (ie narsrim and munsia on glomdoring when i'm not around to hand their asses to them)

I try to keep my own pk friefing somewhat under control

Sylphas Suspect
Silimaur Suspect
Valandriel Suspect
Elysiana Suspect
Kurama Suspect
Vanthan Suspect
Morik Suspect
Exoro Suspect
Ekard Suspect

^

Thats my suspect list, I personally have a rule i keep to myself about jumping non-combatants. I don't do it....ever. I will kill someone if they have fought on faethorn before, but not for defence of home territory (IE where you can place guards and totems which is how i define it)

I don't really organisational grief by raiding.....however I think the issue if the raiders being able to escape so easily. If we actually kill the raiders then it makes everyone feel better. Allow the distorting of the commune and cities proper, or give glomdoring a coven ability type thing that can be used to distort.

I wouldnt mind raiding more when Ixion and Daevos are around but they are never around and still where they need to be when we are around

Excuse me? What am I doing on this list?

You're a demigod stealing scholars, of course.

I stole scholars from someone 180% of my might and twenty ranks higher than me.

OMG! GRIEFER! PEACE KAHAZUL! NERF!