Grief Players: How should we handle them?

by Estarra

Back to Common Grounds.

Geb2005-11-05 03:21:25
There does need to be a bit of self control; a line that people refrain from crossing. If people do not see the need to curb some of their activities for the longevity of the game, then perhaps sometimes the Admin does need to jump in. Now the problem is figuring out what that line should be. Where is the point when a person or group of people’s actions causes so much aggravation that it starts to push people away from the game? I personally believe it is that point when people have been clearly defeated, yet the victors decide they will continue to push the defeated into the ground. Others may have their own view on what it is, but what I stated above is my personal view.
Munsia2005-11-05 03:26:41
QUOTE(Xenthos @ Nov 4 2005, 11:20 PM)

Tehn.
Junee.
Barbosa.
Drayde.
Allaris.
Luciano.
Tassadar.
Bulvai.
Alshara.
Shishi.
Icotsu.
Amaurak.

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I suppose the fact that I have never heard of any of these people means nothing? do you just hand out secretary positions so quickly?
Xenthos2005-11-05 03:31:42
Heh, no, those ones didn't all make it to sec/undersec (and when I said that, I meant undersec- the only secretaries were Raguel, myself, and Adracunin). Undersec was given to a number of people who worked to help novices... which, uh, is the point of the position. They tried, and, well... given the atmosphere, can't really blame them for not sticking around.

And what does it matter if you heard of them? I've never heard of the following:

Undersecretaries: Mistie, Zephyriel, Torath, Bastienne,
Shaeden, Empe, Amarax, Nikki ,Peeka, and Kharne
Athana2005-11-05 03:33:09
QUOTE(munsia @ Nov 4 2005, 07:26 PM)
I suppose the fact that I have never heard of any of these people means nothing? do you just hand out secretary positions so quickly?
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I've actually heard some of those names...so maybe you just arent around at the same times or overlook them. No offence but you don't strike me as the most observant person when it comes to new players
Malicia2005-11-05 03:36:00
Xenthos is assuming that those people left, not because of other ooc circumstances, but because of the SW. Mhm, sure. I've never heard of them either, but that isn't relevant. A player is a player.
Xenthos2005-11-05 03:42:20
QUOTE(Malicia @ Nov 4 2005, 11:36 PM)
Xenthos is assuming that those people left, not because of other ooc circumstances, but because of the SW. Mhm, sure. I've never heard of them either, but that isn't relevant. A player is a player.
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You're partially right. Some of them did leave due to other concerns. A good number of them did not. It's been so long since then that I can't remember which is which, but these are people who tried to get somewhere in the Ebonguard and many of whom ended up seeing exactly what they were in for and gave up.

This is also just one guild- there are two others.
Terenas2005-11-05 03:48:16
As far as I know, the only time in the past that have caused people to leave the game was early on when Magnagora just kept pounding Celest into the ground. As a Celestian at the time, it became incredibly disheartening to even bother logging on (I recall dying 3 times within 5 minutes). When you have people that don't even bother coming up to Celestia to get rid of raiders, that's when you have serious problems. At least I still see Glomdoring members defend constantly when the commune is attacked.

Not saying that there aren't some people that make the game unenjoyable for others, but I don't think Glomdoring has it as bad as Celest once did. Then again it maybe that I had experienced first hand on the losing side back then, but not so much this time.
Xenthos2005-11-05 03:51:32
Right now, we don't have it all that bad. We're a heck of a lot better than we were. For a time, there were approximately three of us who just constantly died over and over. Commune logs were full of dead guards.
Viravain2005-11-05 03:52:17
QUOTE(Malicia @ Nov 4 2005, 10:04 PM)
QUOTE(Viravain)
If you are worried you're going to be tagged, that might be your conscience telling you to cool it a bit. Which isn't always a bad thing, warnings, punishments, or not.


You're so perceptive, really. rolleyes.gif

Malicia the griefer. Erm, no? I just hate to see players like Narsrim run off because of administrative punishments that aren't deserved.
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I wasn't referring to you, Malicia, and perhaps you should consider that not everything said is directed at you when people are speaking of things in general.

However, you have named one specifically when the topic of the Administration asking about how to handle grief players arose, because you are afraid 'he will be run off'. Considering the fact we are stressing that to even get a *warning* to cool it down, it would take huge amounts of effort to make the lives of other players miserable and drive them away from playing the game. Yet, you still mention Narsrim?

It strikes me that you either aren't understanding it when we say this would not be for normal, everyday things and only the most serious of actions, or you may actually be questioning how far some players have taken things in game. Considering who you have named, it would be apparent you are worried for them, as they are your friend, and someone in your commune.

That is understandable, and commendable to want to look out for those you care for. The administration wants to do the same, for the players who feel so opressed they cannot log in without fear of someone who has crossed the line. With the entire team of the administration watching as well, don't you think it would be possible to actually tell when someone has crossed that line, and be able to say so without bias?

All this said, does anyone have any more comments to add concerning the topic at hand - that being, 'How should we handle grief-players', and not comments about minor incidents or the names of other players in specific?

Diamondais2005-11-05 03:54:40
Allaris never tried for a position, she never cared for positions. Just hung around Glomdoring returning those neat little Shadow Crows. Or hung out with Draik while he was in Glom.

Dont bring her into this please?
Xenthos2005-11-05 04:01:20
QUOTE(diamondais @ Nov 4 2005, 11:54 PM)
Allaris never tried for a position, she never cared for positions. Just hung around Glomdoring returning those neat little Shadow Crows. Or hung out with Draik while he was in Glom.

Dont bring her into this please?
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I find myself missing Draik from time to time. sad.gif And that bolded bit is why Allaris got mentioned- yes, I did notice her working on them quite often. But I won't mention her again.
Diamondais2005-11-05 04:06:13
Thanks Xenthos


Draiks around, somewhere. Ill dig him up somehow and send him your way if you want happy.gif
Xenthos2005-11-05 04:10:02
QUOTE(diamondais @ Nov 5 2005, 12:06 AM)
Draiks around, somewhere. Ill dig him up somehow and send him your way if you want  happy.gif
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It wouldn't quite be the same, now that he's a Paladin- Xen's not quite so happy about it. But if you do see him, say hi for me, please? happy.gif
Raezon2005-11-05 04:21:42
This thread is now being moderated aggressively. This is NOT a discussion about what constitutes grief or a chance for you to specifically talk about situations. As Estarra has mentioned, this thread is to discuss your specific reaction to the administration doling out warnings/peacings based on the full administration coming to that conclusion.

Again, this is not a place to ask about a situation, mention a situation that might or might not be griefing, defend someone specific, point out someone specific, or do anything other than respond to the sole question posed.
Unknown2005-11-05 04:26:37
I think that the administration looking over 'griefing' instances is a good idea. As long as it is either a non-biased Admin type, like the Norns or those other group-single admin type persons, or if it is a group of other Admin god types. So, Hajamin (for example) couldn't say 'Daevos, you were a bad, bad man for slaughtering that group of Celestians! Greifer-boom!' But Hajamin could say to Lisaera and Raezon 'Daevos just slaughtered 385 Celestian novices, and then mailed their heads to them with a letter saying HAHA I 8 UR BODY!. I think he should be warned.' Whereupon Lisaera and Raezon would say 'Most certainly, my good man!' and then Greifer-boom.
Unknown2005-11-05 04:34:33
Come on, kids. Let's all be friends.

Malicia, Thorgal. Hug.

Now.
Unknown2005-11-05 04:36:02
Sounds good to me. Do it.
Unknown2005-11-05 04:48:22
I'm still not quite clear on what would change from current admin policy. Can that be explained a little more?
Geb2005-11-05 05:09:09
QUOTE(Raezon @ Nov 5 2005, 05:21 AM)
This thread is now being moderated aggressively. This is NOT a discussion about what constitutes grief or a chance for you to specifically talk about situations. As Estarra has mentioned, this thread is to discuss your specific reaction to the administration doling out warnings/peacings based on the full administration coming to that conclusion.

Again, this is not a place to ask about a situation, mention a situation that might or might not be griefing, defend someone specific, point out someone specific, or do anything other than respond to the sole question posed.
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Perhaps it should be made a poll and then be done with it? If you make a thread asking a question about a subject as volatile as griefing, you have to expect people are going to start questioning what constitutes griefing. If you just make a pool that gives the exact choices on what you desire the people to vote on without any options to post about the subject, you will perhaps just receive the Yay or Nay answers you seek.
Acrune2005-11-05 05:21:00
QUOTE(geb @ Nov 5 2005, 01:09 AM)
Perhaps it should be made a poll and then be done with it? If you make a thread asking a question about a subject as volatile as griefing, you have to expect people are going to start questioning what constitutes griefing. If you just make a pool that gives the exact choices on what you desire the people to vote on without any options to post about the subject, you will perhaps just receive the Yay or Nay answers you seek.
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Its not really simple as that. A poll simply can't discuss what is considered to be griefing, to what extend said griefing should be controlled, etc. A lot of people seem stuck somewhere between 'yes' or 'no' which would probably lead to a rather useless poll.