You're cristian if you're baptized, and at a later age accept communion of your own wish (Specially when baptism was done when you were a week old).

And the church has always been good at playing for both sides. Excomunicating nazis but not explicitally Hitler is one of those actions that allows them to survive during centuries (I mean, just imagine there's a pro-nazi movement in the future and they think the church excomunicated their spiritual leader).

From what I've heard, Hitler gathered all adn evertyhing he could use to raise the german broken spirit to his cause, be it music, old traditions about german supremacy, christianity, and finding a common enemy to blame for the economic disaster Germany was suffering at the moment (yes, as always, the people who had more money were jew bankers. They haven't learnt yet that when people owes you a lot of money they're goign to try to avoid paying. Same reason they were kicked out of spain in 1492). One of the reasons the jews were cursed was because they killed Christ and that showed they were inferior.

I just think the guy had lots of things to worry about that didn't include religion. I think he just had enough with adoring himself. But religion (all religions) are useful tools, and I am sure in his young times in the church he learnt a lot of people control methods and about ralling people to his cause. Some say that when he talked to the public it was like he was preaching to the people, and people followed him.

Older post but I don't have much to add to the Hitler argument (Ok, I suck at History).

Meanwhile I have a pet peeve with the fact that every act can be pegged to christianity JUST BECAUSE the word 'god' is used.

"That man just ate a baby! I think he was wearing a cross. DAMN YOU JESUS!"

The point I was trying to make was that a God claim is just a guy claiming it's god. It doesn't discredit NOR credit anything. God could've told bush to attack Iraq. God could've told Hitler to start the Nazi regeme. God could've told Hitler to start an army and take over the world but NOT start the concentration camps.

That's why Christians constantly say "Well, it's between you and God". It's also why we're supposed to be non-judgemental in the first place: Only God knows what's right and what's wrong.

But fine, I, as a representative of the Christian religion, formaly apologize to the Lusternian community for Hitler's violent actions against humanity. I'll also apologize for the Inquisition, the Crusades, Conservatives, those folks who think you should either be converted or dead, the fire-and-brimstone folks, the GOP, many of the popes we've had, and country music.

As for any acts of God, you'll have to speak to Him directly.

Happens the same with rol games.
Former soldier high on drugs with a story of hitting his wife and sons, who does a lot of things but also PLAYS ROLEPLAYING GAMES kills an old man who was sitting in a bank in the park because he smelled bad.

PRESS HEADLINE: Roleplayer slays innocent bystander during a game.

This is an exagerated case, but really, I've still have to see a headline like: MANIAC CHESS PLAYER SLAYS LITTLE OLD LADY.

More people have died in the name of God than any other person.

Mostly because he so easy to blame.

Also because we are still arguing over who this God person/thing is.


Ok, also because God (Christian version at last, can't vouch for the rest) has people who are very sacrificial. When your religion's defining moment is your own God essentualy killing Himself then you're going to have some nutty followers.

Did Hitler reject every single tenant? Pat Robinson is a Christian. He has called for the extermination of non-Christian and homosexuals alike many times. While Pat may not be "Mother Teresa"-ideal-Christian-image, many of his viewpoints do tend to parallel some of Hitler's... which ironically can all be drawn from scripture.

My point was simply that Hitler is twisted into being this "godless monster" as a means to shield the "good name" of Christianity.

Point made there. It's sort of like finding out your brother is a serial kiler .

Edit: By that I mean that people get shocked over it and tend to rationalize. It's a regular thing that's done.

"How could they DO that!" "Well, they are *insert something that's not them here*"

Can't blame all of Christianity over Hitler, but can't claim Hitler was a 'godless demon'.

Jews have not collectivly been bankers since the 1200s.

In Germany, Jews were in the army, were poor, were academics, were musicians, were snow shovelers and shoe makers. Some were homeless, some had large mansions.

Hitler both claimed that Jews were stealing all the money, and were too poor and thus sucking up the country's money.

Jews never killed Jesus, and Jews were cursed LONG before Jesus was even born. Its in the 5th book of the bible. "You will forever be a small nation."


I could really care less which religion Hitler was, however I find it interesting that people like to use Hitler as an example of religion hurting people, and yet its very clear to me that Hitler was in no way a christain.

He was as much a christain as all the people on this forum who claim to no longer be christains were.

And more people have died to natural causes then any other reason. Lets blame everything on nature!

And if you want to be all stastical about it, If you take two groups of people.. those who respect religion and those who don't. Over the course of history, a Larger percentage of those who don't respect religion have killed more people than the percentage of people who do respect religion.


edit: There is no "good name" of Christianity.

Prove it. I'd love to see the multiple case studies that concluded this.

What defines someone as "Christian" other than that person claiming it as one's religion?

I have an answer to that, but I'm afraid it'd fly in the face of the majority of people who call themselves 'Christians.'

To me, you can only be a christain if you blieve Jesus is some sort of savior or something.

Hitler clearly thought that Jesus was a weak fool and that Christains did nothing but spread lies.


Most dictators have outlawed religions or tried to replace religions with thier own. The most amount of people have been killed by dictartors pushing out segments of their population to remove possiblities of rebelion. While religous persecution may be more torturous they tend to kill far fewer people in pure numbers. So while Stalin killed closed to 20 Million all the crusades together killed less than 3 million.

Since most masses follow relgion, the percentage of people who do not respect their own religion is FAR fewer than those who do respect their own religion, thus any number of leaders, even if they are 50/50 would be a higher percentage.

The crusades where during the early medieval age, where a town with 100 people was a big town, children died before being 10, and those things. Also, you had to go and kill people by hand.

Stalin and Hitler started his work on a much more populated world, with weapons that allowed for much faster extermination of human beings.

In fact, probably if there was a Hitler now, well, just imagine how much people an atomic bomb in Tokio or New York could slaughter. And really, right now the ones who could do something like that are religious fanatics.

What does anything Hitler did have to do with the believe that Jesus was a sort of savior? You are comparing apples to oranges.

He's arguing that Hitler wasn't Christian with it. Essentualy, a Christian is a person who *clears throat*:

1. Believes in God

2. Believes that He came down to earth in the form of Jesus of Nazarath (sp)

3. Believes that Jesus died for the sins that christians have committed, past, present, and future.

Believing that marks you a Christian, and not doing so marks you a non-christian. That's according to a good many denominations. Some even go to say that these are the ONLY requirements: If a person here starts doing so RIGHT THIS MINUTE, no matter if they've even touched water or knew what a church was, then they're a Christian, and the other way around.

Given that, if Hitler didn't see Jesus as his Savior then he failed belief three and, thus, was never one no matter his claim.



I'll save everyone the trouble and argue against it. That ideal fits only some of the denominations of christianity (including my own for the record). I'm pretty sure there's some denominations that work differently (i.e. Catholism). If Hitler followed just one of those beliefs then, technicly, he's Christian. It's the real reason why lables, especialy Religious ones, utterly stink, and why we need to start labeling ourselves by 'Denomination Religion' (i.e. Baptist Christian, Catholic Christian). It'll save us ALOT of confusion.

Of course, I realize I could be just saying that just so I can go "See, Hitler's not in MY denomination. I'm pure!" I hope not: I'm already stressed out at all the humbling lessons I've been given, and I'm hoping I won't need another one soon.

Says who?

Right, excatly why I felt safe making such a claim. The later in history you mass murdered groups of people the more likely you are to have killed more people. In addition, more massmurdering leaders in recent history have utterly despised any sort of religion.

The only atomic bombs ever dropped were not by religious fanatics. If you look in the modern era, the religious fanatics like to kill people on small but loud scales. They wish to bring terror to the individuals not to the countries, as they are fighting over souls and not political agendas (supposedly) However the big dictators who hate religion are trying to defeat other large groups of poeple and thus kill large groups of people at once. (sadam Husiein, Stalin, That guy in the zchek republic.)

Very good point. Christianity is so large, and the denominations so varied, that being just "Christian" really carries very little meaning anymore. Without knowing what sort, it's almost meaningless. Paganism is much the same way, due to the eclectic, homegrown nature of it.

Another thing that annoys me is the large number of Christians who believe things because they are Christian, instead of being Christian because of the things they believe.

I'm on click-keyboard here but that is important to me so I'm posting anyway.

Yes. This is annoying. My parents are like that. Raised Catholic, so now they just believe what people tell them about that without even thinking. (They actually will tell you that they are 'too busy' to think about things that way. This is only really acceptable until they start preaching about it to me, way I see it.) It's doing your religion a lot of injustice in my mind.

Argh will post more w/keybord. (I agree with narsrim ftrecord. )