Unknown2005-11-11 03:12:41
QUOTE(daganev @ Nov 10 2005, 07:50 PM)
And if you want to be all stastical about it, If you take two groups of people.. those who respect religion and those who don't. Over the course of history, a Larger percentage of those who don't respect religion have killed more people than the percentage of people who do respect religion.
220983
In the absence of actual data, I would expect the opposite.
Those who do not hold superstitions or unevidenced beliefs have no justification for cruelty or malice. This does not hold for religious conflict.
You're also assuming that all modern wars aren't fought on religious grounds.
Unknown2005-11-11 03:16:56
Why.. are we debating.. over whether Hitler was Christian or Pagan? Who cares? He still killed six million people, and then some.
Daganev2005-11-11 03:23:29
Well the few dictators I do know about tend to throw people and kill anyone who speaks out against them.
You have that night of 1,000 lotuses in china where the ruler killed all the intelectuals because they challenged his claims.
Heusein killed off Kurdish villages to keep them in line.
Stalin or Lenin insisted on killing anyone who wasn't for communism.
The French Revolution went around killing everybody who was royalty.
Hitler based all his killing off of Social Darwinism.
It when you have some scientific princible on your side that you are more easily able to kill large amounts of people as in some process of getting rid of a problem.
Any dictatorship will simply kill the people who do not agree with them, rather than trying to convert them.
You have that night of 1,000 lotuses in china where the ruler killed all the intelectuals because they challenged his claims.
Heusein killed off Kurdish villages to keep them in line.
Stalin or Lenin insisted on killing anyone who wasn't for communism.
The French Revolution went around killing everybody who was royalty.
Hitler based all his killing off of Social Darwinism.
It when you have some scientific princible on your side that you are more easily able to kill large amounts of people as in some process of getting rid of a problem.
Any dictatorship will simply kill the people who do not agree with them, rather than trying to convert them.
Iridiel2005-11-11 09:55:09
The Catholic Kings in Spain (1492, discovery of America, and no more jews or muslims in spain) did all they did for religious reasons.
Including:
- Killing all muslims in sight to get them off Spain.
- Expatriating any jew "who was only allowed to carry what they could carry on their bags" and keeping all their property as they couldn't sell it either.
- Doing all we did to convert the south americans.
- SPanish Inquisition and how to kill and burn endless people directly or indirectly with the excuse of religion or heressy.
Almost all the wars in the middle age were caused or justified by religion.
Now, for the current times:
- We have 11S in New York
- We have 11M in Madrid
- We have 7J in London (with less casualties as they were lucky, but equal terror)
- We have Irak, Afganistan and "God told me to remove a fundamentalist muslim group in a rich oil area".
- Franco (dictator that caused the civil war in Spain, and 40 years of post-war deaths) was "Governor of Spain by the Grace of God"
Just a few examples or religious killing.
Including:
- Killing all muslims in sight to get them off Spain.
- Expatriating any jew "who was only allowed to carry what they could carry on their bags" and keeping all their property as they couldn't sell it either.
- Doing all we did to convert the south americans.
- SPanish Inquisition and how to kill and burn endless people directly or indirectly with the excuse of religion or heressy.
Almost all the wars in the middle age were caused or justified by religion.
Now, for the current times:
- We have 11S in New York
- We have 11M in Madrid
- We have 7J in London (with less casualties as they were lucky, but equal terror)
- We have Irak, Afganistan and "God told me to remove a fundamentalist muslim group in a rich oil area".
- Franco (dictator that caused the civil war in Spain, and 40 years of post-war deaths) was "Governor of Spain by the Grace of God"
Just a few examples or religious killing.
Daganev2005-11-11 09:58:05
All those killings added up together don't even equal 6 million.
I think people have lost a sense of perspective.
I think people have lost a sense of perspective.
Iridiel2005-11-11 10:13:23
I think you're losing sense of reality You cannot compare things that have happened in different stages of time, with different weapons, different populations.
What's worse, English exterminating the entire native american population even if they were a few and not nearly 6 million or Stalin killing 6 million, wich were a small percentage of the total population?
What's worse, English exterminating the entire native american population even if they were a few and not nearly 6 million or Stalin killing 6 million, wich were a small percentage of the total population?
Cwin2005-11-11 14:19:36
QUOTE(Narsrim @ Nov 10 2005, 07:20 PM)
Says who?
221153
QUOTE(Cwin @ Nov 10 2005, 07:16 PM)
He's arguing that Hitler wasn't Christian with it. Essentualy, a Christian is a person who *clears throat*:
1. Believes in God
2. Believes that He came down to earth in the form of Jesus of Nazarath (sp)
3. Believes that Jesus died for the sins that christians have committed, past, present, and future.
Believing that marks you a Christian, and not doing so marks you a non-christian. That's according to a good many denominations. Some even go to say that these are the ONLY requirements: If a person here starts doing so RIGHT THIS MINUTE, no matter if they've even touched water or knew what a church was, then they're a Christian, and the other way around.
Given that, if Hitler didn't see Jesus as his Savior then he failed belief three and, thus, was never one no matter his claim.Â
1. Believes in God
2. Believes that He came down to earth in the form of Jesus of Nazarath (sp)
3. Believes that Jesus died for the sins that christians have committed, past, present, and future.
Believing that marks you a Christian, and not doing so marks you a non-christian. That's according to a good many denominations. Some even go to say that these are the ONLY requirements: If a person here starts doing so RIGHT THIS MINUTE, no matter if they've even touched water or knew what a church was, then they're a Christian, and the other way around.
Given that, if Hitler didn't see Jesus as his Savior then he failed belief three and, thus, was never one no matter his claim.Â
221148
Edit: And before ANYONE jumps in and attacks what I just quoted, I've already shown why that argument doesn't work. The point of the post is to answer Nars' question.
Meanwhile:
I think I understand now why Godwin's Law came into existance. We're SUPPOSED to be talking about the French revolts that are going on and the second someone mentions Hitler the whole thread gets stuck. Yes, I'm including myself in the whole matter.
Daganev2005-11-11 21:14:37
Actually, there just isn't anything more to say about the revolts. Nobody knows who is revolting or why save for the amorphious "poor oppressed people" who have not made any requests for any particular changes, so there just isn't much to talk about. And since every group of people are saying "Its not us, we don't support it" there is just little to talk about. ITs like talking about a riot that results from a victory in a football match.
Cwin2005-11-12 00:00:34
Ahh, I hear you. I guess it isn't all bad: I found out ALOT about Hitler.
Silvanus2005-11-12 05:21:39
You all should know that Hitler contradicted himself in every speech, in every writing, and in every book.
Daganev2005-11-13 02:24:59
So I'm hearing now that there are riots all over europe and not just france?
Daganev2005-11-13 02:47:46
Very interesting, France, Denmark, Germany and Belgium are all having riots by teens and mostly muslim, yet its almost impossible for me to find the articles telling me so on Google.
Denmark riots:
http://www.canadafreepress.com/2005/cover110405.htm
Belgium Riots:
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_articl...acks+in+Belgium
Google search on European riots:
http://news.google.com/news?q=riots+europe...tab=nn&oi=newsr
Denmark riots:
http://www.canadafreepress.com/2005/cover110405.htm
Belgium Riots:
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_articl...acks+in+Belgium
Google search on European riots:
http://news.google.com/news?q=riots+europe...tab=nn&oi=newsr
Iridiel2005-11-14 10:25:10
It's usually people mirroring each other. Nothing in Spain so far, but the usual riots by white guys after football matches, and teh church doing demonstrations against civil rights every two weeks or so.
Cwin2005-11-14 14:26:57
QUOTE(Iridiel @ Nov 14 2005, 06:25 AM)
It's usually people mirroring each other. Nothing in Spain so far, but the usual riots by white guys after football matches, and teh church doing demonstrations against civil rights every two weeks or so.
222952
Maybe the teen rioters can't schedual their riots when the town is free.
Teens: We're sick of this! We're rioting right now!
Spain: Sorry, having a football game. The fans have schedualed a riot for the next 6 hours.
Teens: Well, what about tomarrow.
Spain: Catholics marching against working mothers that day. We're free next Saterday though, 1pm-7pm
Teens: awww, but we're out on vacation then.
Iridiel2005-11-14 14:37:37
We could use that, specially when we have 3 demonstrations at the same hour, with crossing paths, and defending antagonistic views.
It's pretty comical.
Football cannot be scheduled because it only happens when your team wins something very special or loses in a very awful manner. Churchies are more predictable, though.
It's pretty comical.
Football cannot be scheduled because it only happens when your team wins something very special or loses in a very awful manner. Churchies are more predictable, though.