American's are not only made up of Christians - they are very much diverse and are a melting pot of many different cultures, races, relgions, and yes, even sexual orientations. Instituting laws based on one religions beliefs that affect an entire country, much less using outdated, mistranslated, and entirely overrated text in a book is ridiculous - Religion has no place what so ever in politics. A homosexual couple should have the same rights and priviledges as a heterosexual couple does. But then again, American's also have Bush as their president - it's a wonder things aren't even worse for you all.

It honestly amazes me how small minded some people are in this day and age. Imagine, people thinking a Gay couple shouldn't be able to adopt - I suppose the millions of children starving and dying are far better off in their current condition? Raising a child has nothing to do with you (and your spouses, if it applies) gender. I'm far more worried about pedophiles, rapists, dangerous alchoholics, or heck, just normal, child molesters/abusers possibly being allowed to raise children, then being worried about someone who is a homosexual being allowed to raise a child.

Next, onto the topic of 'contributing to society', and homosexuality 'shouldn't be able to be allowed'. Well, since homosexual couples can't generally reproduce without the aide of the opposite sex, in some shape or form (even though a gay man could donate his sperm, or could work with a female who wanted a child, or a female could go and work with a male, or the donated sperm), I suppose that also means...

Babies, toddlers, small children, young children, young adult females who have yet to menstruate, most women over 40, dear stars in the heavens any man over the age of 60, the elderly, the sickly, the sterile, those who just don't want to have children, and couples in countries where there is a set limit on how many children you can have (after having that limit) are all in the same boat, as well. After all, they aren't procreating (which is in of itself another problem entirely, unless you feel the six billion plus population of the human race is in some shape or form going extinct from sheer lack of numbers.)

I'm heterosexual, and nothing is going to change that, and I'm entitled to be so, just as a homosexual is entitled to their preference and right to show it. I'd much rather associate with someone intelligent, friendly, and broad minded, homosexual or not, than a small minded bigot obsessed with knocking down anyone who is not a clone of them.

And for the record, stop calling me a Faghag...even if I am surrounded and enjoy it.

Is that so? Says who? The APA not only supports gay marriage and same sex couples, but fights against this sort of propaganda. There have been MANY studies into gay parents, which conclude that they can be just as good of parents and provide for the emotional, psychological, and other needs of a child as well as straight parents. For you to stipulate that a "gay couple" is of the same effect as a "single parent" is just wrong.

And for those wonder about the APA:

The American Psychological Association (APA), in Washington, DC, is the largest scientific and professional organization representing psychology in the United States and is the world’s largest association of psychologists. APA’s membership includes more than 150,000 researchers, educators, clinicians, consultants and students. Through its divisions in 53 subfields of psychology and affiliations with 60 state, territorial and Canadian provincial associations, APA works to advance psychology as a science, as a profession and as a means of promoting health, education and human welfare.

I find it much more insulting that anyone who has an opinion is labeled a biggot and small minded.

Its a sad day when people can't understand the concept of boundaries and how relationships affect the people around them who are not part of the relationship, but thats the world we live in.

There is a difference between having laws that are enforceable and just having laws that are there for the sake of being there.

Bravo, Narsrim. And here I was, about to go through my old college Psychology textbooks, and quote the exact same thing.

Having an opinion or idea is great. Having a hard set belief you go out of your way to enforce so as to degrade those who aren't the same as you, is not.

You can change an idea - changing a belief is much harder.

However the APA changes its opinion on this issue about once every 30 years.

I'm sorry, but in this situation it appears to me more that the pro gay marriage group is pushing and shoving thier beliefs on everyone else.

In this situation is an issue of "We want this to be public and talked about" vs "We want this to be private and discussed only between private individuals"

The group that wants it spoken about loudly and in public shoves and forces those who think such issues should be private into a place they do not want go. And nobody seems to really care about thier opinions or feelings on the matter.

Psychology changes as society changes.

Perhaps in 2030, then, they'll be saying homosexual couples are the best to raise a child, then.

But then again, maybe there really are people who would rather see children starve to death, or die of disease and poverty rather than be adopted by a person or couple simply because they prefer the same gender sexually.

What's the good anti-gay marriage stance? I haven't really heard it.

I mean outside of the "Christian" view of gays, what's the reason that government (and note that marriage is now an institution of the government not religion let alone the property of Christianity) should not condone gay marriage?

In this situation is an issue of "We want this to be public and talked about" vs "We want this to be private and discussed only between private individuals"

The group that wants it spoken about loudly and in public shoves and forces those who think such issues should be private into a place they do not want go. And nobody seems to really care about thier opinions or feelings on the matter.

was an edit.. I should stop edditing.



The real question is why is Marriage an instituion of the Government in the first place.

Once you answer that question then you can move on into changing what that institution is. But up untill recently, Marriage was well defined.. now its not defined at all.

So, you believe people fighting for the right for homosexuals to be married to the person they love, and hold the same benefits from that marriage as a heterosexual couple is wrong, or overbearing on those who think they don't deserve the same rights as others who are heterosexual?

Boy, am I ever glad slavery has already been abolished - they might be overbearing and shove their beliefs they are not just property on everyone who wanted to keep slaves.

Whats the good argument that people who get shot in wars deserve more benefits than people who get shot while putting out a fire in a city?

Marriage is not an instutiton of Christianity, Daganev. There are many religions that practice gay marriage... why is their version of marriage "lesser" than the Christian marriage?

What exactly are they fighting for the right for?

They are fighting for the right to what exactly? What law exists that says a Homosexual can not be married? Infact the old governer of New Jersey was gay AND legally married.

No rights are being deprived of anyone.

All I see are people shouting that the world should change so that they can feel better about themseleves.

Well, I would love to be given the status of a alumni or a member of a secret orginization, or the status of a Veteran. I'm as much a person as they are!

Umm who the cares about christianity. I sure don't.

This sounds more and more like people who are angry with the Pope than people who don't like the laws of the country they are in.

Narsrim you're intelligent on, and in this topic, as well as well versed in the contents - would you care to post in response to Daganev? I happen to dislike stating the painfully obvious, and I don't properly feel I can say what I wish while maintaining a professional attitude.

What? Are you serious because I want to give you a chance to rethink this.

First, I live in the state of West Virginia. The State officially does not recognize gay marriage. A marriage certificate for a gay couple is not issued and doing so is a crime. Thus, there are laws that exist.

Furthermore, rights are deprived. For example, the right to make medical decisions for a partner. A married couple has this right. A gay couple does not.

Personally, I know enough gay people who do not think Marriage should be changed to safely say that I know I'm not being "biggoted" or "small minded."

Not all gay people think the same way, so why this is ever brought up as an issue of being "biggoted" is way beyond my understanding.

(Well actually its not beyond my understanding, I just know it has little or nothing to actually do with Gays or Marriage, and more with political power)