It doesn't make too much sense, most of stuff to fight for is on prime...

Not my fault. I think there should be more to fight for off prime, rather than (almost) everything being on prime.

When do people actually fight on Prime outside of the following:

- Village in Play
- Defending home turf
- Defending influenced turf
- Raiding

I mean 3/4 of the major reasons, people *still* conglutinate. I never ever pray for a reason - you never have to.

I think you mean, "I am very, very good at running away when something goes wrong, or getting resurgemed if the unthinkable happens while I am raiding." If you don't have so many escape skills and your enemy is smart, you don't have a lot of choice, they can still force a pray.

Tumble is amazing, however.

To be honest, many of the arguments against XP brought here are already problems that need to be addressed in any case:

Demigods/titans: It's been argued regularly that it's too easy to reach this state, especialy back when Astral was around. How many of them are we going to have by next year's end? Since it already needs a change, then we can adapt it to include a no-XPloss world at the same time.

Bashing spots: Again, that's already an issue that needs dealing with with or without XP loss. We can convert to an no-XPloss system, up the difficulty in getting to titan, and up the bashing spots (the latter two, again, already needs to be done anyway).

Combat on prime: There's already posts talking about making more combat-favoring issues off-prime and allowing the already PK-limited Prime to be more for non-combat related conflicts.

In fact, we can mix them all together:

Reduce/eliminate EXP loss on Prime, increase difficulty of getting to Demigod/Titan, add more bashing spots off prime and make those spots linked to combat-favored conflict quests.

The result: More places to fight in and more reasons to get into a fight off prime, meaning that on-prime CAN have less combat. Removing EXP would, then, remove a big reason why people get angry over the game (sidenote: can you remember actualy enjoying something in lusternia because of the EXP loss involved, other than when you killed a foe and made them suffer?), while the upped difficulty keeps the Demigod/Titans away (which will help with the 'extremes' issue we have here).

If everyone is afraid of people losing all of their fears of death, just give praying something less permanent but more annoying. My suggestion is increasing the time to return to the portal to 5-10 minutes.

Many MMORPGs, seeing how disdraught players become upon seeing their hours of work lost due to one death, have implemented systems that punish players for death without making them feel quite as punished.

One way is to remove all XP-loss upon death, but make it so that you will gain experience slower for a period of time, with half or so of your xp going to fill in that 'death debt'. On the other hand this would mean no one would ever actually go down in rank or level upon death, just get slowed quite a bit, and in as conflict-laded a world as Lusternia sometimes it's best to have a more tangible punishment.

Just because people are becoming titans and demigods so quickly we should keep the exp lost the same or raise it there should be a punishment when you die and if you just ask for it lowered there is very few things limiting a large group of people from titan. I would rather see a raise in how much people lose but thats just me I guess.

Except that most people who got Titan/Demigod were avoiding combat anyway.

That's how I see it:

Big exp loss from dying:
Many people get frustrated and avoid combat. Titan-to-be just doesn't fight and bashes all the time in peace.

Low exp loss from dying, but exp gain for 90+ nerfed:
More folks keen on combat. Titans-to-be have it harder anyway, would they PvP or not.

Narsrim, would you AT LEAST try harder to hide that you just want Magnagora to lose a lot more exp from dying to you, so that you have the satisfaction of ruining hours of work?

I like what Guido suggested. Makes some sense.

I LOVE IT!

We even have the code for it I think: within the Karma Curse of Harmony. Just have each death drop you 1 level exp gain(i.e. most races end up with a 1 level disavantage). Enemy death can be a L 2 loss and, perhaps, gods could have a kill that knocks you 3 levels. The loss can stay until a certain amount of exp is 'repayed' (comparable to the exp loss now). It can be a price payed to the Fates in order to repair the damage you caused for dying improperly.

Conglut and it's like will help you avoid the penalty, in the meanwhile.

How's that sound? You could fight like the dickens without being knocked back to Novicehood. However, when you finaly go back to bash you'll feel the burn then.

That idea's pretty cool, I like it

That's...a pretty awesome idea actually.

Lich/Transmig = L0
Vitae/resurgem/conglu = L1
Pray/resurg in enemy/vitae in enemy = L2
Pray in enemy = L3

You'd still whine that you bash and bash and get nothing after few deaths.

I wouldn't mind that, actually.

And if not, give Glomdoring at least a skill somewhere like resurgem.

I don't know. I kind of like the debt comming from Atropos, thus anything that stops you from seeing the fates eliminates the penalty (besides, why does resurgem need a penalty anyway?). Perhaps a revival via Nexus would steal link your essence to it, letting it absorb your life for a time (no, it won't add power). Thus:

Lich/Transmig/Vitae/Resurgem/Conglu/ so on: L0
Nexus Revive = L1
Pray = L2
Pray in Enemy = L3


Also, perhaps, to add another aspect: The penalties stack: Prayers leave you at a L4 penalty, with the ultimate being 100% of your exp dumped into the payment. It would also mean a faster payment as well.

As for the amount you have to pay:

L0 death = no penalty
Each death out of enemy zone = x1
Each death within enemy zone = x2

So the way you die determines how much is garnished and the number of deaths determine the debt.

Of course, much of this would be inner mechanics. To players, the help file would state "Atropos will sometimes agree with her sisters to not snip your thread. However, you'll find your future experiences leeched from you for a time to recover the damage your death causes the fabric. The amount 'leeched' and the total amount of experience required depends on many factors, but rest assured: You WILL pay"

The details will probably be on every nation's Ghelp list anyway.

I'm not a big fan, like Guido said I think there should be some penalty. Otherwise you have the case where you bash to a level you are comfortable remaining at, then you can die endlessly.

And how would demigods/titans fare?

I bet the whines about getting no exp after a few deaths will be NOTHING to the frustration of losing 5+ levels after reaching L80.

As has been said, there are so many ways to lessen the loss from death. So, while it'd be nice to see a lesser xp loss, we do not have near the prayings that Achaea or like games did.

There is 0 need for the admins to code in an entirely new system. Think of the xp-loss as your debt to Atropos. Because, with your system, as I believe some pointed out - one simply gets to level 80 or so, and just raids willy-nilly all over the place, and never ever looses a drop of xp.

As long as the penalty isn't STACKABLE. meaning, if you die to 5 serens in a row, you don't have a L5 penalty.