Yeah... about a real year ago...

I was there not so long ago, and the only problem I keep seeing in celest is apathy and internal debate. And the "I don't wanna fight let me be" bunch of Raziela followers, than might be a few but cause problems anyway.

The aquamancers have a lot of interesting people, though. Did you manage to get a real influence in the city finally?

I guess it's good that I've played around on a non-novice Celestian alt since well before Nok rose to prominence, then. I don't make those alts known, nor do I play them as I play Nok, so it's not surprising that you wouldn't know them (and that's how I intend it to remain). So while Nok is undoubtedly my main character, don't be so quick to assume that I don't know what Celest is like.

I never suggested that you were a "cruel Avatar." I said that you, in your capacity as Haja's Avatar, are given undue influence in the Celestian government, which is true. No other God (save Viravain, who has no Avatar) interferes as directly in their nation's governance as Haja does. So while you may view it as benevolent, and Vesar may indeed be a secular leader, the government does tend towards the theocratic side (as does Glomdoring). Magnagora, by contrast, is far more secular in that Fain and Raezon take a much less direct role in influencing events.

And I do feel that my assessment was fairly objective. I pointed out examples, based both in the histories and current situations, where there are juxtaposed perspectives that may be difficult to reconcile. As an example, I could have certainly pointed out that there is a conflict between Celest's leaders trying to rule justly and how that's opposed to Celest's inherent "good" elements - except that those are not contradictry or conflicting, so they don't provide a good point of drama, intrigue or development. On the other hand, Magnagora's underlying "evilness" does certainly clash with the leaders trying to rule in a just and fair manner, while promoting a free society against the backdrop of a despotically-ruled empire. I hope that explains why I chose those examples a bit more clearly?

I guess it's saying something then, that nothing has changed

Celest have changed drasticly. But we have yet a lot to do before you notice it. We still have to many Raziela followers that dont want to do anything what consider combat. Thats bad. When i was Celestine i was follower of Raziela, and i still am more like judge then zeolt. I dont jump on random people, or trying to annoy them, but i fight/die/pray when i have to. And i also sacrifice a lot to ressurect those who die in battle, And sacrificeing on level 90 is realy pain, i hope Celest know how hard i hit Hajamin with those sacrifices.

Just to comment on the Aesyra thing - she's the Ambassador. Every minister has influence. But the real reason she has influence is because she actually tries to do things. Other people could just as easily get it if they did.

Why are people trying to drive away players by saying that anyone who has a social life and doesn't like combat is bad? Are you trying to keep Lusternia small so nothing interesting happens? (save admin events)

edit: If you kick out all the snugglers who is going to become an expert on comm quests and running your economy? Who has time to fight and become a super business person?

I lived in Magnagora nad what he said is quite the opposite of what I experienced there. You lived in Celest a long time ago, maybe it was like that then but I don't think it is anymore. Same reason why I won't say anything about Magnagora now, been away from there for too long.

I lived in Magnagora a long time ago as well, as save the reality of people acting on the situation, what Nok wrote looked very accurate to me. Meaning, people may not walk around with those ideas actively in thier minds, but that is whats going in the city. (e.g there may not be a player or clan for every house, but the houses do have a role)

No the problem are those people that refuse to even so much as defend.. and rather stay back and do nothing when they would really be needed. Or those that still believe because Celest is the Light and whatnot we should protect all sentient beings in the Basin. And I mean outright by law prohibit hunting there and there, and if they do it regardless get CDF'd and kicked.

Problem is that at least 70% of the Basin would have to be on that list then.. so how would our members be expected to level then? How to defend when they still show up on NWHO? How to learn new skills if they can't bash enough to get gold? etc..
That's why I'm so medivial against anyone who says let's protect the Aslaran or Merian..

Personally, I think excluding that type of thought, and not discussing it in a balanced matter is really harmfull.

There is an entire skillset called influence made just for the sole purpose of gaining experience without killing people. There are TONS of quests littered througout the game to give massive gold and experience. It may be harder but taking the moral highground always looks harder in the shortrun.

Instead of forcing them out, why not ackglowedge that some people need to fight and some people need to refrain from fighting. Find a medium ground. Save the extremism of the punishments you mentioned, I don't see anything inherently wrong with what you described. If people don't want to defend then the will have to live with no villages and dead guards and no supernals.

edit: I don't think its right to kick out a cultuer because you want an easier time to bash, something that is really an OOC motivation, not an IC one.

Not everyone is combative. They aren't useless though. If Celest was completely non-violent, that'll still mean they should have several villages (any one that goes into Peace), a mass of comms, and Culture under their belt. Instead of prodding these people to go do what they are dead-set against, prod them to help in ways that aren't against those beliefs.

Meanwhile, look towards every person that want to fight and do anything you can to bring them up to power.

Then just GDF/kickout the ones who either don't want to do ANYTHING and/or get in the way of the ones that do (if I'm reading it right, you have people who want to STOP Combaters from fighting?).

We're not kicking out people that refuse to fight. What we're doing is changing the city environment from what it was (which everyone, taint, non-taint, forest, etc agrees was bad) to a new New Celest. We are becoming more aggressive and able to carry through. As far as kicking people out, we aren't doing that. We are, however, rewarding those that choose to fight for the city hansomly. We acknoledge that we need non-violent people, for Culture and Influence, however, we need a larger and STRONGER core of warriors, which we are now starting to get.

That may be what your doing ingame, however on these forums people continue to appear to be trying to push away anyone who "snuggles". That might of be very usefull at the opening of the game so we did not start with bickering and stagnation, but at this point I think we need to try to invite those players in more.

compairing Celest with Serenwilde, Serenwilde has the "struggling to hold onto oldworld viewpoints/racism" going on WAAAAY more then Celest

It seems that New Celest thinks that killing Ladantine every half an hour makse them 'aggressive' and 'powerful'.

(Don't hurt me)

Wow. I know you're not bitching about that, right? I mean.. let me not dig into the history of conflict between Celest and Magnagora.

Since it's been mentioned: Nice work in the sea battles there, Celest. It's a good sign to see that there's more kick left in the old empire.

(*prepares FF7 style meteor to land on New Celest*)

Woohoo, go Celest.

<----- Celest

<------ Team spirit