And you're a warrior. Non warriors, if their health healing potential is hampered, they run or die, usually.

My problem, as it has always been, is that everyone is pretty much equally tanky to magic it seems, but certain classes are much tougher against physical damage than others are. There's no balance where warriors are weaker to magic and and stronger to physical, and vice versa with other classes.

If I get amputated, first thing I'm going to do is roll. If that doesn't work, next time I get amputated I'm just going to call up a resurgem coven on CT before I die, because it's more efficient than wasting time trying to cure at that point.

That's not exactly true, Icarus takes 1900 from a single Moonburst from Diamante. Most people without Trans magic or skill-based magic resistance will take absurd damage from mage/guardians. I take around 1400 from a Nightkiss, some warriors can take over 1400 from a single staff cast. So it's not like warriors don't get hurt, our saving grace is our high health, which most of us sacrifice by using Surge, making us susceptible to mana-kills and mana-curing abilities, or low Intelligence.

Yep, I am a soft target like that. I am at Gifted Magic and my health, mana and ego: 5412, 3471, and 3471.

Diamante moonbursts me for 1800 straight (and he is getting an artifact to boost that).

Geb's staff also does 1800 on land and 2000 plus in water (he already has artifacts).

Kharvik can mindblast me for 1400 damage, 700 mana and 700 ego each round (8 sec recovery though).

Keep in mind that for mages, that is on top of demesne effects like passive stun from jellyfish, or another 1400 or so passive damage from rockslide.

If you were always susceptible to mana kills, I'd accept that as a balance. But since you can pick and choose, it's not really the same. And throwing out raw numbers to compare always strikes me as odd, since it skews the perspective. It'd be much easier to compare percentages of max health. Like, 1900 damage is about 66% of my max health. However, on Icarus, that number is probably far lower.

Anyway, didn't mean to hijack really, just a pet peeve. Back to amputation.

To be honest, this is just about how I see Amputate should be at. Critical afflictions should be hard to reach if the person is healing it off but just about near fatal once you get it. Meanwhile, the idea of keeping out of Critical should not be easy to keep up without a counteroffensive to slow them down.

So beyond the worry that a person with an amputated leg is still capable of fighting well then Amputate seems overall ok. The question just comes down to what a two-hander can and should be able to do to slow you down enough to GET to amputate.

Critical is actually really easy to get with any kind of good precision weapon though (not that I've tested after the changes). That's the problem. Some of the afflicts like amputate aren't as easy as (say) pinleg, but still.

Critical wounds are easy to obtain when you have high precision weapons that also do a decent bit of damage. The person has to pick and choose between healing health or healing wounds. Considering that some people's lunges, assaults, crushes, etc can get a person to critical wounds in about 8 to 12 seconds (even with constant application of healing), I continue to believe that a critical affliction like amputate should remain rare.

I have to concur. From a non-high-health perspective, pureblades are able to rain down the smack quite well at the moment from what I've seen.

Other then Daevos and Icarus who are you guys fighting that can get critical wounds that easy my sword is 509 precision with forging runes and against any person that can parry and stance well enough it is easy to keep me from getting amputate anything. Amputate now is hard enough to get off definatly if i try to pull out a claymore or a katana to get it so the difficulty in hitting it is not really up for discussion since it is that hard to achieve it. Maybe if slashing ab worked like it is said to this might be different.

I also have to ask: during those 8 seconds what were you doing? Were these people sapped? Webbed? Taroted and paralysed? From the way non-warrior types work, it seems like their goal is to avoid getting hit (guardians/wiccans via hindering the attacks, druids/mages by range assaults and ground control).

Perhaps the problem lies more with non-warriors not being able to slow down a warrior's attack well enough rather than what happens when the sword hits the flesh.

Web whoring a large warrior works, but it kills your active offense, and they can still heal the passive afflicts, usually, while webbed.

Moondancers also don't have the strongest entourage, so our hindering is mostly active.

Not to mention that you are called a webwhore if you do it too often.

What you're called doesn't matter, you do what you have to do. But that's true if you want to truly hinder, you won't get far with the offence, and warriors will always find a moment of freedom to swing anyway.

It's not the case with Ashteru who can sap lock though.

You realize that you can tumble right after the first regeneration delay finished?

Upon hit, the leg gets amputated - mangled - broken - healed. Regeneration twice, and mending once.

You can tumble the moment it's merely mangled, i.e. 4 seconds after the hit. Meaning when a knight amputates you, he can get in only one more hit before you can start tumbling.. how is that incredibly debilitating?

If a mage or guardian cant slow down a warriors offence then you need to learn your skills cause it seems that all of you want is to be able to make sure a warrior is unable to hit you all the time. Mages have stun, paralysis and many other skills that slow someone down same with guardians with a aeon skill to add on to that. As a Celestine I was able to handle to many knights with good parrying and stances with rebounding and many passive skills.

I said critical wounds, not amputate. I specifically stated that amputate should remain rare, since critical wounds are easy to acquire. Nothing in my statement you quoted said anything about amputate being easy to obtain.

Ok Cwin, how about this? How about you fight Geb. You are asking questions of me like I do not know what I am doing. That being the case, how about you show me in game your superior combat knowledge?

All of those are used, but do you think assaults and lunges still do not get through? If a mage or guardian were able to completely shutdown the attacks of warriors, you guys would be on these boards crying bloody murder.

It is amazing how some of you warriors are making statements like people do not know what they are doing, but yet in still many of you get defeated by me even when I am outside of a demesne.

That one more hit could be the other limb amputated, if amputate limb is made easier to acquire. You are not considering the whole picture. Considering the precision on some of these weapons, making amputate limb easier to acquire would also mean more limbs could be set up to be amputated. Also, considering the fact that every class does not have a secondary means of significantly healing health or wounds, the victim is forced to pick and choose between healing one or the other. With the right weapons and amputate being made easier to acquire, a person could possibly easily find himself in a situation where he dies if he applies health, or dies if he sips health.

Again I state warriors should ask for more afflictions of worth, but do not try to overpower the ones they already have.

*note: If you remember reading what I have written above, I stated that it would be too debilitating if the person was automatically knocked to the ground and could not tumble. I did state that I would rather the person be knocked prone, but would also be allowed to tumble. I then went on and stated that I felt the effect size has on tumbling should be removed, and only balance bonuses and penalties should remain in effect.

This is the same reply in every case when someone calls to question magic damage versus physical damage:

First, we must realize that Trans Magic is available to EVERYONE. Trying to make an argument that implies someone lacks trans magic and therefore the damage potential is "higher" is akin to making an argument that warriors can afflict to heavily if a target lacks trans resilience. As the wise Murphy once said: we assume trans for the sake of balance because they are available.

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Second, there are few to no classes that lack skill based magic resistance:

Athletics: Resistance
Rituals: Draconis
Moon: Aura, Drawdown
Night: Garb, Nightkiss
Sacraments: Benediction, Numen
Ecology: Charms
Psionics: Biofeedback (or maybe its the other one...)

When it comes down to it, Mages are really the only people that lack good magic resistance because biofeedback or whatever just outright sucks (and locks a channel). Close behind is Ebonguard with Crow. And finally in a distant third Serenguard with Stag (who have medicine bag and stag totem for additional health healing).

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And third, Sylphas is dead on: Warriors get the best defense against physical damage and wounds + potentially awesome magic resistance (exception being Stag/Crow warriors). When you top this off with the fact that warriors also get the best health, there is no room to really debate the topic. Do you surge against my moonburst even as a 21-22 int Mugwump? No. Why would you? You don't have to.