Or, you know, just explaing it to them oocly in tells.

GNT is OOC? er, no it isnt. And if it is, it pisses me off. You realise were all required to have GNT on or we get frowned upon? yes, well..that adds up to being -forced- to sit through OOC crap. I've never seen someone speak OOCly on GNT without being diverted to tells, so er i dont know what little world you're in to be honest.

Why do you have to go.."tell newbie Just type these words on your OOC keyboard okay? "ABJURE COSMICFIRE @TARGET" get that? now the OOC mob will be hurt, OOC type it again and it might just OOC die! then grab your virtual gold, and virtual corpse, and OOC bounce around the room cause you've just got your first OOC kill! in the game!"

When you can just go "read the AB scrolls, for instance AB COSMIC COSMICFIRE will show you how to use your main hunting skill, if you have any questions you can send me or any of us a tell". why? people insist on finding excuses to be "naughty" and be blatantly OOC because they think they have an exception, it's a simple FACT that being OOC for any reason detracts from the game completely, and isnt helping Lusternia's image to outsiders when they get on perfectly fine without being OOC in an IC roleplaying game. Sometimes even for well established players there come plenty of times where it's really damn hard to explain something without being OOC, so deal with it! It can be fun trying to make it IC, there is no reason for newbies to have to be taught on IC channels with OOC talk when there are a million ways to do it more subtly and less embarassing for the newbie themselves. newbies are impressionable..if the first thing they hear is "TYPE THIS INTO YOUR COMPUTER COMPRENDE?" they will remember, and they wont make ANY effort to be IC in future because they'll feel like idiots considering their "elders" thought it was OK for them, thus being hypocrites.

And yeah, "that RP crap" that say's a lot about your opinion doesnt it?

While a good idea in theory, such would never work... In the last year Lusternia alone has added 14 new skillsets and countless other "basic" things, we would be updating books before they were made.

I'll add that GNT is OOC on a level that is a direct component of crowds of novices being there. They say something OOC, it's accepted and they're kindly asked if they need any help in tells. Just because novices dont get beat with sticks every time they speak OOCly doesnt mean they shouldnt be discouraged from it.

And note that i'm not an "RP nazi", i'm not a very good RPer myself, i prefer the gameplay aspect..guilty? yes.

Being IC, and "Pure roleplaying" are two totally different things.

If you get an actual novice that knows -nothing- about Lusternia, Achaea or Imperian, then you may have to say to them, or tell them, how to do something. On the initial training of a novice should be the only time you go even remotely out of character. You can tell which have never played before and which have in most cases, there are some that are good at just sitting and pretending to not know anything at all.

GNT is used for novice questions about the GUILD, SKILLS, and how to use them. What they have to do to progress, advancement, so on. If someone feels that they are going OOC they are directed to Tells, and warned. Generally, at least it was this way in the Moondancers, with HELP INSANITY.

If youre new, you probably dont realize that you learned most of the stuff to look at skills in the tutorial (if you took it that is) and you need help. Learning, looking at skills, who to learn from, what to learn, how much to learn, etc. Even directions can be hard to get.

no but your oppinion tells me you are a lousy noviceaide. Gods have said on these forums the OOC is needed. If you make novices read entire AB files, they quit. Simple as that. We don't say type this and that, and keep in mind AB files are ooc to. we tell them "cosmicfire is your formost attack for hunting, you use it by ABJURE COSMICFIRE " and then let them try it out on a rat. It's to the point and the novice knows how to use it.

Once they understand the syntax, they are ready for the RP part of the game.

GNT is a novice guild aetherwave, you can reply to questions of a novice in an ooc way if this help the novice, you can not talk on it about the last soccer game. And nobody can force you to keep this aetherwave on once you are past novicehood, unless ofcourse you are a guildofficial.

Oh and all of the novices I trained seemed to of been happy with my way, and none of them use ooc things on any public aetherwave.

Once again you say you should reply to novices in an OOC way on GNT, Diamondais has it, you dont seem to. you can reply to them in tells! see now this works better why? because you dont need to be OOC to THE WHOLE GUILD who ARE roleplaying.

I'm sure your novices are happy, but i wouldnt be if i was one of the normal guildmembers and got exposed to blatant OOC references that you could have told said novice directly, not only does it completely ruin peoples perception of YOU as a character, people who are supposed to respect you wont, because i'm not going to salute some random guy i dont know, i will however salute to a higher ranking character because it's my characters role. If you want to rolebend, you'll end up reaping the consequences one way or another.


You said it yourself, none of your novices speak OOCly on a public aether, you however, obviously do..so do they just know better? GNT happens to be public, you know.

a. Not the entire guild should be on this channel
b. I reply on the channel when I believe other novices might benefit from it aswell. Believe it or not but you can learn from someone elses questions.
c. you don't know anything from my ingame roleplaying abilities so don't even go there.

edit: and to many this channel is considered a hybrid between NEWBIE and GT

Yeah you're right i dont, did i claim to?

I disagree that the guild shouldnt be on GNT, the only times ive ever GNTOFF, i've been bugged as to why i've done it, because people not helping novices have no prospects whatsoever. Those rare few ignorant people arent getting guildfavours anytime soon. Novices are the single biggest source of getting noticed for being helpful, and getting promoted. There have been plenty of times i've thought i cant be bothered with this spam, but i dont really feel like stunting my progress hugely.

No, only those interrrested in helping novices should leave it on, I know many people that have no interrest in novice training whatsoever, they still gain high ranks within guilds for guess what, they have other talents.

It seems to me you can only see things black and white, and don't realise there are grey areas.

and many gods have seen me reply on GNT in an ooc fashion like 'use CAST BLAST ' and yet I have never gotten any RP points deducted, nor have I ever got a warning from one.

I'm not talking about the most amazingly basic things like "do CAST BLAST".

What the hell do you mean i only see things in black and white, and people get away with GNToff because they have "other talents"? Basically, you're assuming i'm only capable of helping novices? no, see now there are various routes to a goal, take them all and you get there quicker. Neglecting novices looks BAD. If you're an elite PKer and can get by just by being the champion of your guild and kicking ass whenever asked, then great, but if you're one of 90% of the guild the most useful thing you can do is help take novices off the guild hands, then you are expected to at least look like you're doing so.

I dont care what you say on this, i have been bitched at time and time again for having GNT off, it's as simple as that, because theres no good reason why you should block the cries of novices unless you're just unwilling to be helpful or busy, and you cant be perpetually busy. It has nothing to do with other talents, if you're incapable of doing such a menial task as helping teach the novices what they need to know, you arent worth anyones time and it doesnt particularly matter than if you're talented or not, unless you're the absolute elite in your field and are needed for your abilities.

It's a fact that when you start out in a guild, if you havent got $2000 worth of credits, you're going to have to start with the very basic helpfulness and willingness to do what is asked of you, without being ignorant by turning off channels and getting on with your own selfish business, if you do that and dont have any useful skill to show for it, the guild dont need you, and wont have time for your crap. Believe it or not, i'm not sure if you remember that far back, but you dont start out with respect, and dont start out being asked to do all the cool jobs like kill people or discipline people or edit GHELP's, and whatever latent talents you do have, dont get the chance to be shown until you're established.

It depends on the guild and its leaders, no need to generalize like that. I'm sure what you're saying is true for many guilds, but not necessarily for every one of them.

Newbie channel should serve as an OOC source of information for newbies, but you just have to forgive them for asking blatant OOC questions on GNT. We'd all like GNT to be IC just like other channels but it just doesn't work that way in practice.

You *need* to have a GNT where you can be OOC (geez too many acronyms). The Newbie channel is for EVERY newbie and that channel isn't necessarily going to be helpful for guild-specific questions.

I prefer to hear all the public newbie chatter since that helps me out! Sometimes people ask questions I would have never even thought to ask. I didn't even know there was a guild novices help file or how to access it until someone else told a newbie where to look on the GNT channel.

This game is large, complex, and really damn confusing. If you've been playing these things for a long time then that's one thing. But if the Powers That Be want to attract new players or those who aren't hardcore, then the support for newbies needs to be friendly and accessible, and information needs to be presented in BITE-SIZED CHUNKS.

Trying to pour through the help files or help commands takes a lot of time. There is way too much information and its overwhelming. There's a lot of jargon thrown around. "OOC" and "IC" and all the other stuff. Makes my head spin!

Try to imagine playing this MUD from the perspective of a newbie. It's mindboggling. E.g., there you are, wandering around, and find yourself in some place called an "Aetherplex." Then it's all about "manses." I'm thinking, what the HELL is a manse? The helpfile is not very helpful on this thing, but I can kind of glean the answer from the commands surounding the term. So now I think I've kind of figured out how to use the Aetherplex room, and travel to a shop manse to buy myself some clothes or a puff pastry...but how this relates to all the other aspects of portal-type travel I am still figuring out, seeing the big picture here is really hard to do sometimes.

At the rate I'm going I think it will be a year before I feel confident enough in this game to venture out beyond the safe zones.

But that's OK...I think part of what I like is the ability to go at my own pace...sometimes when you have someone trying to look over your shoulder they will try to force you to go faster than you need to go. Sometimes you want to just spend some time poking around a bit because that's how you are leaning everything.

As a novice, I agree. But sleeping is also a good time to browse through the help files; doing so keeps me entertained. I guess it's a lot harder for mages than warriors to get used to the game, because there's more commands other than simple PUNCH or KICK or SWING, and you can't access help files when you're meditating or else you will snap out of it.

As for OOC directions on GNT, it's kind of imoprtant because live feedback, especially from higher-ups, make newbies feel more valued instead of "n00bish."

Well, that's why people advice novices to find a mentor, who will explain things in detail, and why in many guilds there's people specifically there to help novices with their problems and even to give them a tour on the basic skills.
Wich is something that some novices don't want, and complain about (why have I to spend 15 minutes talking about guild skills when I could just read some helpfiles and go killing rats??)