I agree with Avaer, Im not enemied to Glomdoring with any character I play but I get the impression that you guys just obviously dislike Diamondais (Doesnt help that Draik used to tell me I was on some untrusted list or something like that) Why in my right mind would I lead someone who dislikes me, give them a ton of gold and sit there and wait for -them- to unenemy me? Why would they sit there? Hell, theyve got me defenceless pretty much as Im not expecting it if -I led them there- and they have my gold.

Or, I can wear the symbol of Diamondais's fear's, wonderful. She only her closest friends in the beginning to the promise of a Fallen Commune. And is still losing them.

Its not about biting your pride to ask for your help, its about common sense. Youre as close as an enemy is without being one and youre leading someone of your communes enemied commune around with gold in your hands. Or youre wearing a symbol of the destruction of your own ideals.

I'm sad now.

This could have been a worthwhile post, but then Daganev started a flame war I'll just IDEA it.

Thank you for your input, everyone who actually contributed and didn't post just to derail the conversation, as Daganev clearly did.

That's not actually true. Lisaera said the IDEA command is non-usable and the forum should be used instead. I can't find the original, just two references thereto: one and two, though there's a little more here.

The best way to get your ideas acted on is to convince the admins that they thought them up in the first place, though.

I'm not sure how informing you that there are other methods to achieve your goals is called derailement, but oh well.

As to that quote... My charachter is not very fond of cities, and is even less fond of celest, however, that did not stop me from asking a -huge- enemy to help me out when I needed the help and they were the only one there to assist. That also did not stop me from going to celest and asking to no be an enemy anymore so that I could conduct trade that was greatly needed.

In the real world, Israel makes trade agreements with countries that vow to destroy them all the time. They don't make the agreements large and out in the open, but when you need something you need something. America made deals with Russia during the cold war, they make deals with countries such as Iran now.

The world is complicated and not so black and white, sometimes your enemy has something you need and so you suck it up, come up with a plan that won't get you killed, and do what you need to do. I'm pretty sure Gregori or Narsrim has said as much ingame plenty of times.

This will be my last response on this topic.

Daganev, Im looking at it from how Diamondais feels. She feels that Crow and Night have destroyed many things she has held close and dear, the coming of it drove her near to insanity. Daganev, YOU would have welcomed her into Glomdoring. YOU unenemied her, she payed for it. She trusted the fact that YOU would unenemy her. But things change, she changed. She is no longer the person most people know. Dont say you know her, most likely youve not seen who she can actually be.

We werent talking about what the real life organizations, countries, whoever have done. We were talking about what it takes to get unenemied to Paavik, what we who are -not- followers of Crow have to do. We basically have to suck up to our enemies, throw away what we believe in, and get all chummy with someone who's Great Spirit wishes the deaths of our Great Spirit, destruction of our forest so they can take over completly.

As to your fondness to the cities, who says you have to work for them? Beside them? No one can force you to, and you were from a city before Glomdoring rose up. Everyone is free to their own rights if they follow through with laws and rules set in place. Theyre there for your own protection.

Shorlen is in full right to ask for the change, not because its unfair to Celest, Magnagora and at least a third of Glomdoring, but because the ghosts cannot be influenced by anyone other than someone with a Crow Cloak.

Anyways, dont you guys have a law in one of your guilds that FORBIDES you from lending those cloaks out to SERENWILDERS and CELESTIANS, enemies to your Communes beliefs.

Without commenting further on the various issues, the undead can also be influenced by anyone with the Necromancy specialization. This is how the undead miners in Angkrag were influenced back before Glomdoring was a commune.

We all know this.

Blah, oops. Sorry about the Necromancy part wasnt thinking. Bust still leaves the Geomancers out and the Hunters in Magnagora.

Man..this thread degenerated the second Daganev laid his eyes on it.

The fact that virtually everyone disagrees with him isn't enough to convince him that for once he might be wrong.

I mentioned the Necromancer's ability to influence in direct response to diamondais' post immediately above mine, which claimed that only those with Crow cloaks can influence the ghost leader of Paavik. I suppose I could have Quoted it, but I figured people would get it.

That's because we are all infidels who are insulting Estarra's work. Only he and he alone has the insight to appreciate it.

Sadly, I doubt any Divine will read this topic, but still, I might as well point this out.


I have gone to Paavik several times to see if I could 'speak' with the Baron, the village leader, to see if I could address the issue IC.

There's been one small problem with this idea. He's ALWAYS BANISHED.

I've been to Paavik on six or seven different occasions looking for him now, only to find him banished.

Even if I had necromancy or a crow cloak, I could not get people unenemied to the village, because the leader is ALWAYS banished. Maybe every six or eight hours, whatever the quest reset timer is, he's there for 15 minutes before going away again. That's a very small window.

Village leaders are rather important, for unenemying purposes and for village influencing purposes. Paavik is always a pain to influence for either side, since 6 of the 13 important denizens are banishable, including the village leader.

If the village had a living leader, a completely new NPC, it would make influencing the village faster for all sides, and allow people to actually get unenemied, which is nearly impossible in the current state of the village, even for those who can speak with the undead.

Disclaimer: I have no idea how often people are completing the quest in Paavik. But, you do know that even when the quest hasn't been done, the ghosts aren't always visible in their rooms?

Well, you have to TOUCH PAINTING of the ghost you wish to talk to, and if they haven't been banished, they appear.

Either way, I agree with Shorlen in that a village leader should not be able to be banished or undead, which would give tainted people a major advantage.

The ghosts shouldn't even be influencable in revolts really. How much influence does an insubstantial being that comes in contact with no one have? The krokani are just stupid I guess since they've been leaderless since the Holy Celestine Empire.

Yes, I always check for the wistful sigh that says they are actually banished first. Assuming the quest reset is 8 hours, the quest only takes 30 minutes to do, so they're only there 1/16th, or 6%, of the time.