The only thing that needs to change with sanctuary is that demesnes should be able to be broken through them.

I don't see why the concept of a sanctuary itself is such a problem. Stop trying to kill people, and influence instead? Or, alternatively, lay down crusades.

I understand its not an agressive act, but you can have a demesne, large group and have it all set up, someone dies so they walk in graced, into your cruscade....and then they influence....It's like a whole extra santuary each time they die, that ignores cruscade. It would be like if someone were defending a quest mob with force, and someone waltzes in, enemied to the area but with grace on (not where you can put guards) and can complete the quest as harmful as it may be.

To be honest I don't see why grace even exists, i'm sure there is reason but i don't see any reason why grace lasts longer than 30 seconds?

EDIT: And elryn, some of us are influence enforcers. Village influencing isn't always about who can do the influence itself better, there is a combat side to it as well which USED to be the biggest thing there was, before sanctuary. Magnagora has an influence disadvantage with vicanti having just low charisma, but we can fight good. removing the combat element makes me want to log off every time a village comes up. Influencing while graced negates cruscade too....also what annoys me is you can get a heap of people to camp the villages with sanc up, and most of the time they go afk anyway which bothers me too.

Right, and I used to feel the same way walking into an enemy demesne village. Now there is a chance for tactics to be used by both sides to utilize their strengths.

Either you crusade, and try to hinder the other side so that your less competent influencing will succeed, or you sanctuary and rely on superior force of influence.

I don't see a problem. Do you use crusades?

Not the last time Paavik last two times revolted, but the one before (I know, its old), I had over 100 kills in Paavik and I never died.

I fail to see how the combat element is removed

narsrim you got kills from whoring wisp into a trap, they aren't real kills they are cheap, cheesy ones

Someone is jealous

If you marry me, Murphy... I may be able to get you a green card into Serenwilde and the Moondancers. There is still hope for you.

......

I think the problem is this: influencers get sanctuary, combatants get crusade... Grace DOES NOT fit in... right now being able to get grace and just influence to your hearts content is wrong... with auto conglute dying isnt so bad and I agree that nobody deserves grace during village influencing.

Grace was originally built so you cannot be repeatedly killed moments after you die, hence it gives you 15 minutes of protection. For us it serves a dual purpose in that it allows you 15 minutes to influenc(a NON-VIOLENT action) without being slain again.

Guess what else is a NON-VIOLENT action... debating.

Does that mean you could debate out a person who is graced, or would grace still stop that?

you can debate out a graced person, because debate does not require a declare.

Then I want that demesne effects hit graced persons too, since I don't have to declare, only enemy.

urm Ashteru you need to declare people in neutral territory for them to be hit by your demesne

Sure about that? I didn't have to declare several people on the Merian island, for example. Or on the road.

you either have a. and auto declare system. Or B. they declared you.

... that would be simply hilarious.

*gasp* Everyone is after me.

The problem I see, which I think people are implying but not openly stating is this:

Given village conglutination, there is literally almost no experience loss in a village. There are people (like Shayle, bless her heart) that will run into a group of enemies -intentionally- to die and get grace. She will influence for 15 minutes, grace will drop, and she'll self sacrifice again.

It basically boils down to permanently having grace.

Please note: I do not like to die. Nor does Shayle, even for graced influencing. Let it be known that I will not intentionally die for anything. As it turns out, I'm just (and I know this is going to surprise you all) not a very good combatant, especially when influencing, as I find it hard to concentrate on influencing, fending off debaters, and not dying all at once. I -will- however, thank people for killing me, because it does seem to be a polite, yet spiteful, way to handle being wisped into a group of mean people.

It's nice to see that the exact same arguments of six months ago are still being hashed out as though they were fresh and topical.

Cheers!