Yes but he's self-promoting his own forum. Shh! :>

2/3rds I suppose. Don't forget city warriors still get screwed in planar travel.

Well let's make commune warriors screwed in this to balance it out.

*runs away from angry moggy*

I'm promoting a resource available to most of you, that I created for you.

1. It allows us to have detailed discussions that don't get hijacked, and that don't have insults and the like.
2. We get to submit it to Estarra out of nowhere as a detailed idea.

Ironically, you're hijacking the thread to promote your project so people can discuss without worrying about hijacks.

Kind of. They started it! *fingerpoint*

But I'd love an underground area, one that ran beneath the whole basin.

I don't want new planes just pulled out of nowhere with no regards to the storyline. By the way, there's already a plane for the Great Trees. It is called Ethereal.

We still have Fire, Water, Continuum, and Vortex to look forward to. After that... who knows? New areas that exist outside the basin? Travel to the Void? Or those half-formed planar 'bubbles' that exist between the planes? We already have so much to look forward to in this aspect of the game that I don't see much good in making up new things.

What exactly do you call the Spirit Plane, Guido? Does it diregard the histories? I find it amusing that you think EVERYTHING was written down and has been accurately recorded.

On the topic of Planes, however, I don't like how the Catacombs of the Dead are on the Ethereal Plane. As far as I'm concerned, this makes utterly no sense. Why is some tainted ruins located on the forest plane? The forest plane that can't even be tainted *mutter*

Why not just make it its own plane (The Catacombs of the Dead) that you conglutinate on? It would be like discovering a group of regenegade Fae on an off continent section of Nil. It just makes no sense.

I totally agree, except I don't think it needs its own plane. Dead things - Spirit plane.

Its there because Urlach created them there. They were built to access different locations on the Prime Plane without distance having any regard. Only locations fit that criteria - Ethereal, and the Aetherways. Urlach apparently chose the Ethereal.

Also, the Ethereal plane cannot be tainted by Geomancers. While a Soulless God is locked away in the Catacombs - slightly more powerful than your average mage, I'd say.

Its sort of like saying "Well, why are there buildings up in the trees above Serenwilde? It makes no sense! That's like finding trees in a city!"

The Catacombs were built there - they weren't natural, so "making sense" doesn't apply.

Did you read the histories at all? First, the Tosha Pits were originally on Ethereal and then changed to the Spirit Plane because it was a bit weird to have some random little area of spirits linked to a plane associated with forests. It was changed to the Spirit Plane.

Also, of the planes that are mapped and understood, Ethereal is adjacent to Prime. That is not to say nothing else is. Where does the Void come into play? There are all kinds of unanswered questions about it. As it appears, planes are not so cut-and-dry simple.

And if you read the histories, you will note the Ethereal Plane cannot be tainted. The fae literally resist the Taint. They were not tainted, but rather it was poisoning them. Ellindel Treeheart gave the Fae physical form and healed them so that's out (Urlach mind you wasn't a Soulless God either, he was Vernal God).

In sum, the Catacombs are on Ethereal right now for purely mechanical purposes (so far as I can tell) just as the Tosha Pits were originally on Ethereal.

Aww, Narsrim, you're so cute when you're trying to be condescending... especially when you're wrong on so many points...

First off, I didn't say they were the only planes adjacent to Prime, however, it is very possible that Urlach's knowledge of the planes was the same as ours when it comes to Prime-Adjacent Planes. See, you seem to think that just because we don't know there isn't, that there must be - that just isn't so.

And before you jump up and say "But Urlach was a vernal god! He must have known!" It was made clear when Viravain was possessed that Kethuru had not known about the Ethereal Plane.

And the Ethereal can't be tainted? Um.. are you OOCly as blind as those of the Glomdoring are ICly? ETHEREAL Glomdoring was tainted through the Master Ravenwood. Night and Raven were tainted. Hell, the archway into EtherGlom used to mention "Tainted Mists".

Also, the fae were being poisoned because of a Soulless who was buried on PRIME. He was buried beneath the earth, and that is how they got sick.. the Soulless never touch the Ethereal Plane until Kethuru through the Ravenwood - and his touch did in fact taint it.

So... have YOU read the histories?

Also, I wasn't calling Urlach a Soulless - but Urlach and Klangratch did battle with a Soulless God within the catacombs. But you'd only know that if your answer to the above question is "Yes."

Please, Narsrim, before you try and run your mouth, make sure your ego isn't choking your brain of oxygen.

Clarification-
The catacombs are naturally tainted but yes, the rest of ethereal cannot be tainted.

In the realm of possibility, I would say that Urlach would be more likely to have some sort of additional insight into the Planes (and given his mass transport systems). Drawing the conclusion that as a Vernal God, he was restricted to the same insights as a normal person is unlikely. And there has been some discussion IC with Lisaera, I believe, that hinted at additional planes and all sorts of things that our beyond the scope of mortal perception.

How exactly do you explain the Spirit Plane? It is a perfect example of some mysterious Plane that has no background information provide yet exists as its own separate entity.



This really is a moot point that isn't even relevant to the discussion. While I would argue otherwise that Glomdoring was perhaps never tainted in any traditional sense OOC, it doesn't really apply. Urlach was never tainted. He built and maintained the Catacombs of the Dead as a Vernal God that opposed Kethuru.

However, there is nothing to indicate how this was done. As it stands, it makes very little sense that he would have been able to construct some planar fortress on the Ethereal Plane for a couple reasons:

There was a Vernal Goddess associated with the Forests: Kiakoda. The Vernal Histories seem to indicate that Urlach was despised by the other Vernal Gods and I think it highly likely that someone who valued nature and natural aspects would be kind to undeath. Given that Kiakoda was known to be associated with Faethorn and the Ethereal Plane and the Great Spirits of Nature alongside being on the of the most powerful Vernal beings, did she just up and let Urlach build some nasty undead place on the realm she intentionally tried to hide? I doubt it. In fact, there is nothing in the histories that suggests that Urlach was even aware of the Ethereal Plane.

Yeah, I was simply rebuking Narsrim's statement that the Ethereal forests can't be tainted, which, at the time, I assumed he was referring to how Geomancers can no longer taint Faethorn. So I was saying that the catacombs were tainted due to a Soulless.

But yeah, aside from a Soulless, the Ethereal plane cannot be initially tainted.

And like I said: Do you have some explanation as to why the Tosha Pits was originally on Ethereal and then became the Spirit Plane?

It basically spells it out: not even the other Vernal Gods even knew of the Ethereal Plane. How'd Urlach build a fortress on a plane of forests he didn't know about?

No idea? But the reason it was moved was due to game mechanics, not planar/historical logic.

Catacombs, on the other hand, fits perfectly. Kiakoda may have been aligned with the forest, but Ethereal is clearly not ONLY aligned with the forest. There are, after all, archways for the elements - which, while they may have been built by mages, still shows that you can have constructs there that represent other things.

Why did Kiakoda allow Urlach to build them there? Maybe because she realized the use of them? It states in the history of the vernal wars that even those that hated Urlach realized the incredible use they served. Its really an unanswerable question, but they're there, and you might as well deal with it. Both Nil and Celestia are on Cosmic, but that doesn't mean they have anything to do with eachother. It seems fitting, really - Nil and Celestia are polar opposites, while Nature and Undeath are opposites. Works for me.

And before anyone brings it up, yes, I know that Muud didn't taint Shallach, that Kethuru did, however, Shallach was only a single of many different tunnel networks, and Muud was more than likely locked away in a different one. But they're lost, so it could be presumed that they were affected similarly to the taint... since the taint was unique to Kethuru, while other Soulless were still able to make the earth sick with their presence.