Perhaps, Guido, perhaps.

I just find Karma is so utterly weighted in favour of those who are strong enough -to- raid, it doesn't really act as much of a deterrent. It is easy for the strong to use karma to not only hold multiple blessings, but almost instantly remove curses. It also seems to be most effectively used by those raiders against others.

I'd like Karma replaced, personally, but since I doubt that will happen, I'm suggestion a fix. If it were up to me, I'd remove blessings entirely (gods, we have enough stat modifiers as it is), and make it far far far far more difficult to gain karma.

Alot of the 'hinderances against killing' can be dealt with by just shifting the focus off-prime. That's the real reason why I like the anti-pk aspects: because I believe that in the end the peaceful folks and the violent folks will have a place where they are not only able to do what they do, but also NEED to be there to do it.

As for karma; blah, Estarra says that it worked and, thus, I'll believe her (similar mentality with faethorn: no matter how dull it is now it's, sadly enough, better than before....very sadly spoken there). Once we can get more pk-friendly items off-prime, I bet the whole killing issue will calm down. If we need something more later we can look at it, but right now is not the time.

Still, "I" would like to know how hostile I am.

"You are innocent as a dove"

NO!!!!!!!!!!

Remove Karma system, put in infamy.

YES FREAKING PLEASE.

It'd make balancing classes easier too! I don't see the downside.

Can you guys describe that? How would it help balance classes? I don't remember much of infamy, was after my time.

You gain infamy for attacking players. When you're infamous, you're open Pk to other infamous people. Only way to lose infamy is time online.

modification here: when you're infamous, you've no avechna protection on prime.

Hmm, in place of karma? Well, there's some iffiness on it. You'd need to gain infamy for doing quests that hurt other orgs. A person never attacking anyone but sending orcs all the time against villages is NOT a nice person in my eyes. If they were attacking the Moon Avatars and Cwin is the one to end up Infamous for defending them while they remain 'peaceful'..well, that's just silly.

I vote for removing Karma all together(Blessings too!) and putting in an infamy system.

Woot infamy! I agree! But I would miss my life blessings -cling- but........yay infamy! I like eet

So infamy is like the 5th point only?

Essentially, yes. That is all we need really, this will keep pkers to pkers, and give us a way to see who is a non.

The avenger system already 'fixes' that - either the things are off-plane (like Avatars are atm) or they're on-plane but the attacker auto-declares everyone in the city (like attacking guards) or order (like defiling shrines.)

s/Karma/Infamy/. Please. Karma was a nice idea but Infamy really did seem to do a good job in Achaea.

EDIT: it also lets those with infamy attack others with infamy. So if you want free reign on attacking infamous people, you too have to be open to random non-protected slayings by em. It prevents griefing, as those who do mad mad PK (at least in Achaea) aren't going to be griefing a lot or they'll end up being the subject of absolutely mad rapeage of the blade and staff kind.

What about Gorgogs and orcs?

I'm a little unsure about this system, having never been an Achaean player.

Is it a gradual scale? Or is it like, kill x players, be infamous for y * x hours? In this proposal, I had Avenger protection drop only in the most extreme case of constant pk against relative innocents. (Out of a scale of 200, only the lowest 10 points would correspond to losing Avenger.)

Which reminds me, isn't there a punishment for having over 5 victims have suspect on you, or something like that? I can't remember.

Yes, but there's none of this "can't attack other player" stuff. People will game it, game it hard. Hard, like grace'd people linking to nodes to spawn lots of creatures.

Its hard to game the Infamy system.

I like this idea. It would definately add a new dimension to role playing. And it also adds an initiative to those who go about beating people senselessly to be a bit more prudent in their actions. And it is annoying when deathsight gets spammed with Avenger deaths, and that person who summoned the avenger is just as bad as the person they sicked the avenger after.