Isn't the point of this thread that there needs to be a neutral quest that harms the Communes like the Gorgogs harm the cities? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

No, Thillier, you're right. Also, I've noticed that regardless of who opens the rift, Celest generally lets the Gorgogs alone due to the fact that they screw over Magnagora as well. This goes into what someone was saying earlier about the cities putting minimal effort into closing the rift and doing something to whoever was trying harder than everyone else.

I did the quest when we had Gorgulu dead (and kept killing him). Each time the angel attacks Magnagora loses some spikes, keeping the gorgogs out to keep them from adding spikes again was reasonable back then. We did it to harm Magnagora, not as you may believe because I wanted to bash or whatnot (and unlike some people I could care less about honours lines).


111) Because we knew the quest was miswoven and waited for it to be fixed? Once it was the gorgogs were sealed almost immediatly. Another problem is as well that -someone- kept botching the quest. And as buggy as the thing is, it's so easy to botch..

222) How is it our fault? We -do- tell them not to do the quest and go out there. And they ask what they can do to seal them. So all we can tell is you can't do a thing, the quest is miswoven or botched all you can do is WAIT AND HOPE. Great ain't it? Most just log in ask if the gorgogs are around, and if they are log out again. How can you blame that on us?

And they die because they go out there to DO SOMETHING AGAINST IT. They freaking try, and all we can do is to rezz them and tell them its no use they can't do it. ( they die in one hit after all) and that we can't do the quest because -someone- keeps it botched.

I remember when we kept the gorgogs out.. Magnagora went to demesne the whole place and 2-3 people were -always- there, yet I alone botched the quest for hours and days on end. -One- person effectifly kept a whole city from doing anything against it. I just was at the right place at the same time, there are like 100 ways to botch the quest, impossible to guard them all.

They were left alone earlier because it was commone knowledge that the quest was bugged. And had been bugged for days without anyone fixing it.

Plus, Magnagora has less spikes than we have supplicants so it hurts them more. Personally, I don't care at all whether they are out of not, whether we have a Star or not. We can drain the Pool in the negative anyway.. so why gather power? I do however care that this simple game mechanic screws a lot of people, namely those that have just started playing. I mean.. why? How is all that -their- fault?

No Gregori, the gorgogs do not affect the communes -at all-. It does not keep your newbies to do the pixies quest. It does not lessen your power income. Neither does it put the young ones of your commune in danger as they have no reason to go to the Inner Sea, whereas we have a ship in Celest that leads them directly to the isle.. except they die if the gorgogs are out.


EDIT: And no we NEVER released them for bashing. Why should we? If you do that as a Celestian you might very well get enemied for it. And no we don't pay people under the table..

Also this argument is NOT about who does that quest but that it harms the wrong group of people.

Considering I spent nearly a week there hunting, and in that time, it was only the last few days that the quest was seen to be broken. Almost no effort was put in by Celest, barring a few individuals who came once in a while, to close the rift.

While the quest was botched, almost no effort by Celest was put into seeing if the quest was still botched, again barring those same few individuals.

On the flip side, I watched a number of people of Celest kill the required denizens in closing the rift, and using the excuse "the quest isn't working, or that person was already dead so it doesn't matter" Which is about as lame as you can get, since they had no idea if the quest would be fixed right away, they also were using OOC to justify their IC actions, while accusing others of doing exactly what they just did.

You see putting in effort doesn't mean go check every 20 minutes and see if the mariner is alive again. It means you camp on the quest zone and you ensure that the things you need are not killed.

I also believe I stated that if you have told the novices and they go out and die, that is their fault. It doesn't make it the quests fault though. So using the arguement "novices get killed trying to do an unrelated quest" is not in anyway justifiable. They are either dieing because they don't listen to you, or you don't tell them to stay away. No other reason.

I have never said the Gorgogs affect the Communes. I said for the most part the Communes could care less if the rift is open, and it is usually city people either opening it or arranging for it to be opened, or working to keep it open.

Yeah.. let's all not play Lusternia because if we log on we die. Could you please quit arguing this from a 'it doesn't hurt my commune so I could care less' selfish-point-of-view and see more the overall balance?

No it has been commune people opening it the last few times. The only time we told people to open it was when we had Gorgulu dead, never after that did we want it open or opened it.

And for the 100th time, this is not about who you believe opens it but who gets screwed over by it. If the novices are going to suffer give them at least a way to solve the problem themselves again.

Since when does Lusternia = Must play in the Inner Sea? There are countless things to do away from Bondero Bay and the Inner Sea. You are the one trying to justify your claims because Novices die. I am simply pointing out how stupid that claim is. If Novices die in the Inner Sea while the rift is open, there is one of two explanations. You don't tell them what is going on and to find some other of the numerous NON Inner Sea quests to do, or they are not listening to you when you do tell them.

I also know for a fact, there was nothing posted to Celest news warning novices of what is going on, so don't try and tell me "we do tell them"


As for the balance of the quest, I have stated in the past that it should affect -everyone-, the Gorgogs should gravitate towards any nexus period.

Yes, I think a quest that affects communes as much as the gorgogs affect the cities would be great. Regardless of whether it'd be to bolster communes VS cities action or add a way to diverge from the boring same old Celenwilde VS Glomgora axis, or to simply provide an equivalent for balance reasons...

Plus it might add a new bashing opportunity on prime which, I think, would be handy.

As for what Gregori said, I don't think the Gorgogs should affect everyone. It does make sense for them to target the cities, but the forests have afaik nothing to do with them at all. Plus that'd be boring.

The quest hurts cities only. There is no commune counterpart. These simple facts alone, not even going into how the Supernals/Demon Lord are quite easy to kill compared to the Avatars, give reason in the name of fair play for a quest ot reciprocate the gorgog one.

And Gregori, commune members are the ones who open it the majority of the time. There were a couple reasons that cities wanted to open the rift when it came out, so unless you know that Aesyra (using her since she was a point of your argument) opened it recently to get the honors your basis is quite incorrect.

As was pointed out previously, opening the rift is MUCH easier than closing it, even when the quest isn't bugged. While I'm sure the gorgog quest wasn't intended to screw over cities unduely and not effect communes in any way other than having more hunting mobs, it does.

While I may have stressed the point of Aesyra, my main point was don't point the finger at Communes do it, when numerous city people do it. Every org has opened the rift. Every Org has worked to keep it open.

If you want to argue the balance of the skill argue that.
Don't imply that it is something we use against you, when you have used it yourselves.
Don't imply that it somehow chases novices away, when all you need to do is ensure that your novices are well warned that this is a dangerous place to be.

Do imply that the quest hurts cities and nothing hurts Communes. I will agree with that.

Hart and Crow, while mainly being commune focused for conflict, should never have been disabled so long for one. I don't see any admins disabling the sea wolf/dragon turtle quests because Celest has got the beat down for a year.

Yes there should be more of a way for cities to affect the Communes as well.

Ackleberry. There's the solution. Bring back Ackleberry in a sense.

A means is discovered to tear open the rift into the place where Ackleberry vanished, however, its not stable in the slightest. By doing so, it causes a distortion in the forest and "reflections" appear of the time just before the forest retreated - so you'd have ghostly orcs and ghostly furrikin and tae'dae warriors to bash. The orcs being aggressive attackers. The furrikin and tae'dae being aggressive influencers.

The effect this has on the Communes is that the rift extends into the Ethereal as well, causing the fae to be sucked in, clearing Faethorn and both the Ethereal Forests - including the Pixies and the Shadows of Crow - as well as preventing the drums of the dead or the flame of Glinshari from pulsing and adding power.

But, that's just a thought off the top of my head.

I don't have to point a finger when I know they do it. Hajamin SAID Narsrim did it to hunt. And claimed he would close it yet he never did. I'm pretty sure he also did it this most recent time.

This thread is not about who opened but about the consequences and whom it affects.

This thread is not about who opened but about the consequences and whom it affects.

This thread is not about who opened but about the consequences and whom it affects.

This thread is not about who opened but about the consequences and whom it affects.

This thread is not about who opened but about the consequences and whom it affects.


Do I need to keep repeating myself?

A quest to disable to shadows of crow in Glomdoring and the pixies in Serenwilde, then, as they're the spike/sand equivalents. Perhaps release a flock of Rocs or Aerials that then proceed to take up nests in the communes, swooping down and snatching all the pixies and shadows up to eat?

There needs to be a way for every org to damage every other org individually, as well as quests that allow each -type- of org to be damaged (like the gorgogs quest).

There used to be small ones, but they stopped Gorgulu and Razaela from converting fae. Though, Serenwilde does still have Nintoba to hurt Magnagora, they just never use him, for some reason.