People vastly exaggerate the "Inquisition" stuff Celest does both as a matter of fact and as a matter of what "should" be the case.

Just because Celest is not perfectly angelic and crap doesn't mean it's evil.

It ain't. Stop making it sound worse than it is.

Catarin said it all.

Accually I don't think it's come to most Celestians that Celest doesn't have to uphold to the OOC good. And Methrenton atleast is evil from an ooc perspective, If you don't think killing everyone of another group is evil, well something is wrong.

Once they realise It's ok to have 'evil' point of views and act 'evil' Celest might become a powerfull force. Celest isn't inquistiony enough yet, to many people rebel against inquisition stuff in Celest.

And aslong as people portrey Celest as an ooc 'Good' organisation then it will be hard to change.

But then good and evil is in the eye of the beholder

I don't think it has anything to do with an OOC perception of good and evil honestly. I think they're getting it from the supernals. Justice, compassion, truth, wisdom, love, hope, etc. This are the things that describe the light and the light is what Celest claims to follow so it's always going to be the case that some people in Celest are going to rebel against the idea of tossing it all aside. Unless some really good arguments are actually established anyway.

But I agree that it's not bad RP if they don't follow the teachings of the light or whatever. That assumes that everyone has a predefined role and any variation from it is bad RP on their part. Which is silly and would lead to a very boring game.

The virtues the Supernals teach Celest are not at all what we'd understand by them OOCly. They're quite twisted and biased versions that suit Celest's role of a group of highly zealous religious fanatics focussed on destroying their opponents. I daresay at the end of the day Celest isn't that much less evil than Magnagora in its way, really.

You see you can still follow those teachings, thats inquisition is all about.

Justice: your justice, not that off your enemy. You are the judge, and you will bring order!

Compassion: Oh poor little tainted, you suffering so much let me put you out of your misery *hack slash kill*. same for merians, poor little merian you haven't found the light and don't want to , let me put you out of your misery *hack slash kill*

Truth: Truth is only what you say it is, the Truth for a Celestian would be Celest is right, the rest is wrong

Wisdom: Wisdom is accually not a virtue of good, there are alot of evil people who where very wise. Infact a good manipulator needs to be wise.

love: this goes hand in hand with compassion, we kill them because of our love for them. And thy shall bring peace to the galaxy lord Vader *cackle*

hope: The light will be victorious and the dawning hope shall shine

They can follow the teachings of the light.

The second part of that would make Raziela sad, actually. Of course, go talk to Elohora, and I don't think she'd mind all that much, just be sure to use that training in a crusade to raze Nil.

Kaileigh never really foloowed the supernals. She marched to the beat of her own orchestra. She defended because she felt like she should, not because she wanted to.

I'd like to think of Celest as the Lusternia version of the Musketeers, you know, all for one, one for all, truth, honor, and loyalty above all. Unfortunately, people want to steer it towards some zealot, bloodthirsty cult, and it saddens me to see the "City of Light" fall into such barbarianism. Say what you will, you don't have to be bloodthirsty to be strong. If Celest had a code of honor, and stuck with it, it could be just as strong as any organization.

But that's just my opinion...most of Celest thinks otherwise. I just try to keep some shred of sanity in hopes that someday order will return.

Btw, am I the only one who thinks Celestians killing spectres (Spectre Isle) is wrong?

No, I also think you should leave them all to us Magnagorans.

I'm not talking about them following the Light or not; it doesn't matter. I'm also not talking about ALL the Celestians; only the merians. What I'm saying is that waltzing around somewhere slaughtering everything in sight - women, children, everyone - is not something a normal person would do, in any universe. I'm sick of people pretending they're not going OOC when they run around and kill people, innocent people with families, just to take their gold and get better at fighting. I mean, the Moors are at least barely justifiable - You're killing the Krokani either because you want to stop them, or because you want the gold Surtami is handing out; or you're killing the Aslaran because of the gold the Krokani chef is handing out, or to help the Krokani; or your character is a real jerk and you're sneaking behind the quest denizens to get gold from both (If you're playing a greedy, evil bastard, that just might be justifiable RP, but most people who do that are just breaking character). However, killing innocent merians is justifiable only if you really hate merians, are a complete psycopath, or has no qualms about killing the innocent to raise some Gorgogs. Letting someone do that is a bit off for a good character who is a merian and should at least feel some empathy for the poor Airysians. I'm not talking about morality; I'm saying that real people in a real world are incapable of killing each other without at least a half-decent reason. Butchering merians for gold and exp is not a good reason. And yes, I expect the merian character to feel compassionate and try to help. The way I see it, either New Celest is filled with heartless sociopaths who should be in Glomdoring, or Kaileigh and Tzekelkan are the only people who actually care enough about RP to actually do something that will harm their characters.

I agree.

We have an influence skill that is rarely used for peaceful purposes. I guess because that path is harder.

I would love to see an alignment system that would affect how karma would work. Personally, you can do both "good" and "evil" tasks and still get the same karma. Players would choose an ethos and then have to make choices as to the quests.

Or maybe you kill Merians to ensure that the Rift can never be opened, or maybe you kill Merians because they are part of the force that eventually brought Taint to the world, or maybe you kill Merians because you really hate Merians, or maybe you kill Merians because your sisters, uncles, brothers, dog was raped by a Merian once.

Just because YOU don't think people should kill things, doesn't mean others do, nor does it mean there isn't one of a million RPable justifications for it.

That's because it's subjective what's 'good' and what's 'evil', would you really like to have an imposed set of moral values?

Making a hardcoded system of alignment in an RP-driven world - even one like Lusternia, where RP often takes a backseat to fun or PK - just isn't feasible, IMO. Good and evil don't exist in Lusternia: it's all a matter of perspective and choice.

Ironic. I always considered Rp to = fun

Good RPers don't always have fun playing the role they've set out for themselves.

I doubt Kaileigh enjoyed dying to Gregori when she attempted to defend the merians, but she did it regardless.

Still, when you're not having fun with said RP, it's often better to switch, as Kaileigh did.

RP = playing the role you have set for yourself. Some days that will be fun some days that will not be fun. If you expect it to be fun every single day then you are not being true to your role.

Fair enough.

I never said that killing merians is bad RP for everyone. For Gregori it isn't, since Gregori is a bloodthirsty, evil meanie poo poo head. However, going around slaughtering people who never did anything to you personally is hard. Normal people feel empathy for other people. Pity, compassion, and so on. Only someone with a good reason or a sociopath can go and kill lots of innocent people without remorse; it's human nature. I don't disagree from killing merians if you're being true to your role, but doing it for gold and experience is bad RP when it comes to most characters, specially merian and celestian characters.

EDIT: And I'm not imposing RL morality here, or I'd be saying that everyone except for a very few select characters, is evil. I'm not talking about morality, I'm talking about people pretending that killing other people for experience makes sense, RP-wise.