You could argue that due to the length of day and night, it all averages out to little over zero (making the skill so-so), while I could argue that -1 stats is a barely noticable loss, while +2 to the same stats is a more noticable gain (making the skill good). Both of us would be correct in our math, but we'd be using the same numbers to make completely different points.

No, you'd be wrong in yours because you simply remove the time factor from your 'equations' to prove a false point.
You'd be better off going Morik's route. About doing stuff at night and sitting idly through the day. Except it doesn't really work that way.

But I could argue that the time isn't relavant if you don't notice a loss in the day, but you can notice a gain at the night.

But you'd be wrong because the loss is noticable.


Lichdom doesn't affect Con.

Morik, I have no doubt in my mind i could go be a paladin, with current forgable weapons and be very dangeous. If you want to get wounding and pinleg/impale you need to get high wounding/speed scimitars, and you need to be an aslaran. In the wounding stakes, speed kills for the most part.

You want to be putting heretic and infidel on, while you beat on them, hit their arms for hemiplegy combined with asthma, and their gut/legs for impale, use paralysis and all sorts of things. You have the means available to you to take advantage. Also, if they leave the room it doesn't matter, chase em down while their soul is glowing and bam, you've got em.

Heh I don't think anyone is saying lich is a bad skill, or that it is useless. All we are saying it isn't a god mode skill like alot of people make it out to be.

Once again, you prove the concept that everyone will always consider his or her class the weakest compared to everyone else's.

The fact that Shiro, who possesses Necromancy bother making such a poll and listing 4 of Necromancy's skills and half of Sacrament's further show bias already. Why the hell are people even arguing, Necromancers will always complain about how sucky Necromancy is and how Lich isn't as great as others say.

Then do it.

The minute I heretic someone they run. If I manage to get infidel they run even further. This is before I get pinleg.

Its hard to chase someone through a demesne. I could chase down warriors if I got pinleg. But i think you're underestimating how easy it is for me to actually pull off this wounding.

Meh, I'll just keep sparring and see what I can do. But when people can easily run away from my heretic it makes me not want to bother using it: except if I want them to run away.

I'm pretty sure its being made out as a god mode skill because of the amount of times necromancer users get away from hunting/pk death and experience loss through Lich. You may not view it as such, but try not keeping lich up for a few days. See what happens.

Nejii: Sorry fot that double posts. Forum was acting weird for me last night.

Sacraments are no doubt beter then necromancy. It isnt perfect but its nice.

* Emissary - I'm not sure how it works but here is:


* Bendediction - Gives few defenses that most of them Paladins already have from athletics, better for Celestines.

* Lastrites - Skill to destroy a corpse in nice fasion, i dotn use it much i prefer to offer corpse.

* Lustration - 2power skill that heals 20% mana or add 20% mana above max. But it wont be adding more then 5k (somewhere on forum i puted what was exac number).

* Ablution - same as Lustration but heals health. In practice i dont use them cose 2 power for healiong skill is too much, i prefer Puella and i cant no longer get 20% more health/mana cose my health/mana are above point when it works.

* Heretic - great opening skill.

* Dazzle - great hindering skill, better in team then in 1on1.

* Judgement - great instakill. I have to use it more often. In 1on1 if someone is afflicted enought for me to use it i could kill him with damage too. In team is just sweat. Even Kaervas didnt noticed it once in our saweres when he was sitting there with Alger. Kaervas was titan already no way for me to kill him when alger was there with traps but with judge i made it. Its great combo in team, one person dazzel, second judge, if we have third or victim dont have a cubix he is dead in 75%.

* Honor - i always keep it up. More regen is always more regen and is always good to have.

* Numen - great for bashing. Not so good for fighting maybe except team fight.

* Infidel - Isnt that hard to use after heretic, i'm not exacly sure what it do. I never was under heretic/infidel/inquisition.

* Resurrecting - great skill, bring me his corpse and i will rezz him, cost 10 or 100 times less then nexus immolation.
Sacrifice - Would be sweat if more low level people have it. Sacrificing on level 90+ is OUCH! And of course someone have to be willing to sacrifice.

* Inquisition - hard as hell to use but its sweat! 12 power cost in total and good Necromancy users use ghost to run from it. I pulled it off few times but it wasnt anyone from top fighters.

* Trueheal - 10power and 1000 mana to use. Heals wounds/afflictions/health/mana/ego, gives a bit more health/mana/ego then your max gives prismatic barrier that fade after you do almoust anything, you cant run with barrier up as it fades on moving. I'm not sure on what circumstances i could not use truheal, but i bet there are some. And also to use it you have to have 10 power. As Murphy says, good fighter should never have 10 power in a fight.

Sacraments is better then Necromancy.
Why all ur'guards wont come to us?
Answer is simple: Lichdom!
And dont try to tell me its not so good. I had enough tells: I love lich. Or trying to chase someone soul in village and if i fail to find him he run safely.
Lich dont give you 100% praying avoidance. But your chance to avoid praing are much higher then someone wichout lich.

I'm not sure about other Necro skills, anyone want to make nice list as i did?

I listed the best skills in each of the skillset, and necromancy only has four! How can someone be bias, when they have used both skillsets in every situation known to Lusternia kind! Necromancy does suck compare to Sacraments, I think we all proven this and the poll has too. Please don't call me bias, when I have used both skillsets and mastered both.

mastery- a nice little skill, that allows me to talk to the dead villagers in Ankrag. 

Carrion- Another nice little skill, that allows me to consume the corpse of denziens, and players to replinish my hunger.

Feed- One of our many useless skills, that makes our enemies hungry very slowly.  Nilhilist= Maybe good, Ur'guard= Bad

shrivel- Second on the list of our useless skills,  shrivels up your limbs and it can be cured quite easily. Good for teams, I don't know about anyone else.

cannibalize= costs three power, and it can convert 50 percent of your health or mana into the other. May be good for nilhilst, bad for knights.  This skill is useless because of  how badly it would leave you  drained no natter what

Leech= Drains around 800 mana from your victim, though  Nihilists will love using this skill in order to wrack someone.

drain= Semi useless skill, only allows you to drain random percent power from someones reserve. Ps: The skill is broken, you don't get the power you drained from them.

Omen= semi useless skill, it allows you to increase your physical damage to someone for a couple of seconds, cost 2 power and can be cured with high level discipline

Putrefaction- A defense skill  with 45 percent cutting and blunt protection, though you will need a level 2-3 regeneration to be able to sustain it in battle, and it deals 300-500 health, every couple of seconds. 

Disfigure- One of the main useless skills in the entire skillset, tries to get your ents to attack you and it will fail everytime because of love potion

Ectoplasm- Once the best skill for the skillset, now turned into a semi useless skill. Takes two power to use this, and it would be great for team combat. Bad for everything else

Contagion- I don't know why we have this skill because the contagion we use as lich cost three power, though it is great for team combat and sometimes for one on one fightning. Costs six power for this one, 3 if you're in lich form

raisedead= The main useless skill in the entire skillset, raises a corpse that is weak and you can't order it to follow you

crucify- useless skill in one on one combat, because of the long equibilum. Though it is an alright hinder when you're in team combat.

sacrifice- useless skill all around, you would need to have all of the persons limbs broken and crucify for this skill to work

ghost- the only other second skill in the entire skillset that would be used, great for avoiding those pecky celestians or serenwildes

lichdom- the big dady of them all, the skill that everyone says is one of the best. It's alright, it has the same niceness as trueheal.

Now, look at  ekards and then look at mine. Please tell me which is better?

Feed is useless for everyone, 3 or 4 drains to drop just one level of sustenance, it takes 8 seconds of equilibrium.
Shrivel is useless as well... you can do better things in a team than just shrivel limbs, especially that it takes 4 seconds.
Cannibalize I find useless, but it was being used before hitting supernals to raise the current health (doesn't raise max).
Leech is not really better for draining than Amissio. 50 more mana, woo.
Drain's not broken.
Omen works for all damage.

Drain drains the reserve, not power from your opponent. Alger have used this to drain over 50% of my reserve in a single fight, and there isn't a single thing you can do to stop it.

Crucify/Sacrifice are indeed hard to pull off, but as many posts have shown, if you have 2 people with them and a person with tramble, you can instantly kill anyone.

Again, Lichdom is freaking amazing, yet the Necromancers keep on going about how it's only decent, especially after Transmigrate came along. It's getting rather sad and redundant.

And Last I heard, Omen was 5 power.

Like Kashim's previous post shows, you clearly don't have a strong grasp of your own skills, perhaps you should go read the AB files and practice with them before posting.

As a person who doesn't raid much, or find myself in enemy territory often... I'd rather have vitae over lich. Why? If I die, I get suspect on the attackers, they can't do anything more to me and I can just walk away. If I'm a lich, they can try to follow me around, catch me when I'm off-eq and force a pray. Sigils can make this easier. I'm actually surprised that a lot of the non-raiding Magnagorans still take so much time to put up lichseed.

Transmigrate, on the other hand? I'd put that up over vitae easily. I may not get suspect, but it sends me to a 100% safe area where nobody can touch me again, *even if I am raiding and in enemy territory*. If you die with transmigrate, it can't be stopped, there is no way to do ANYTHING AT ALL about it, whereas with lich you can try to track / trap the spirit, or vitae you can have someone who wasn't involved in the first killing finish taking the defenseless fellow out.

It seems to me like a lot of you are trying to play up lichdom for some reason (mostly as saying "Well, necromancy sucks but lichdom rocks, so it's all okay"). Come on, give me a break.

It's 2 power, I think it used to be 4 long time ago, not sure about that though.

Lichdom is great because it's an exp saver. I'm just annoyed when someone rambles about those increased stats ignoring the fact it's almost zero sum overall. And the fact barrier and pits became soul traps on addition to eye sigils is not exactly helping.

I suppose it comes from Transmigration being a lot better now. I mean, they're better at avoiding death than necromancers...

If you are raiding, they don't have to declare on you, so if you get killed, you don't get suspects on them. So that point is moot.

Lichdom is amazing for fighters mainly because if your enemies don't drop an eye sigil down fast enough, you can just stroll off somewhere, reform, def up, and rejoin the fight or leave with ghost. You do not have such options with vitae.
Lichdom is also awesome for bashing because if you vitae you can still die if the mobs gang up on you, they can't do the same if you are reforming.

Why would I bother to play up Lichdom. I've helped kill enough Lichers to know the frustration. I once had to lead a small group of Celestians to kill Alger 6 times before he had to pray, in any of those time he could have teleported away, but he chose not to. I'm sorry, but if you think it is fair that I have to kill someone 6 times to get rid of them, then you are more bias than those Necromancers that think Necromancy is the worst specialized skillset.

Ah. Makes sense, it was too easily cured.

I dont think the focus of this thread is Lichdom though (which has its ups and downs, unlike transmigration which has 100% ups).. there ARE other skills in Necromancy and as was shown by Ekard they are completely inferior to Sacraments.

Uh, that was the point. If you're raiding, lichdom is better because it gives you a chance to try and evade the enemy forces, as there is no suspect. That's why I said, as a person who doesn't raid, I prefer vitae.



You can still do the same thing with vitae if they all gained suspect on you (this obviously only works on Prime, but as so many people moan, all the conflict happens on Prime. In fact, you can even def up RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM and they can't do anything about it.



I've done the *exact same thing with vitae*, Terenas. Fighting in Shallach's Ruins, I went through something like 60% reserves on vitae, not praying even *once*. And this was even easier due to the fact that they all had suspect on me while I waited for power to reaccumulate. Me against Narsrim, Munsia, Aesyra, Shamarah... and I didn't pray because of vitae and suspect. You can be sure they'd have managed to get me eventually if I was a lich, especially using wisp when I reformed. Just drop one eye sigil at the entrance and it's all over, no way out as a soul. Even then, it's a river, and souls can't swim as far as I know.