Dude, most people would put eye sigils in their villages or planes, before a raid can occur.

The whole point of this thread is to compare Sacraments vs Necromancy, not talk about bloody lich. If people continue to talk about one skill, someone close it.

I think Sacraments is better for hunting because it has more defensive things then Necromancy. And for people like Ekard it was handy I had it for when they died I would sacrifice (pitty I nolonger have it huh).

In pvp I think it was great because battle spam tends to mask the instakills. Heck I killed Kharvik and Murphy that way, and I think we all can I agree I suck at pvp and that it was purely cause of the factors that nobody would target me first cause I suck and because they didn't have a decent echo to make it visible trough all the spam.

I also think any half decent non celestian fighter has heretic, infidel echo's to tell them to get out of the room. It takes some skill to keep a person (that knows what he is doing) in a room during the cycle in 1vs1.

If the enemy has tipheret dazzle is pretty useless. So I think it is only really usefull in group combat. (mind you I never really did solo PVP as a celestine and I know amaru has an entire tactic for it)

I don't know much about necromancy. I know litch is great, not overpowered for raiding because the places you raid often have eye sigils. If you jump or get jumped however, lich will probably be great because many people don't have eye sigils (expensive to make, and few enchanters about). The rest of the necro skills I have never encountered.

I'm not sure why youmentioned tipheret/summer. Dazzle is 4 seconds writhe or striped sixthsense.
Maybe its easier for them to writhe from transphix and in same time use tipheret/summer to get out of web/hangedman. but still thye have to writhe for 4 seconds if they dont have sixthsense up.

EDIT: I'm sorry when i writed thirdeye i mean sixthsense.

*glare necromantic reserves draining skill*

Sacraments is better overall, I feel. Necromancy has a few particularly useful skills, but Sacraments is all-around goodness.

a. who of the people that would come fight you doesn't have thirdeye up?...and i accually didn't know dazzle always stripped thirdeye..
b. It takes me longer to writhe then to tipheret (and I only ever been transfixed by a paladin knight, who doesn't have hangedman, plus in 1vs1 you tipheret out, recover balance before or right after the person webs/hangs you. Maybe I just fought people with sucky balance *shrug* or maybe it's because i'm mugwump but I still think Tipheret is alot faster then writhing under any circumstance in 1vs1 combat)

A. Sorry i switched names of this two. Thirdeye and sixthsense. Its sixthsense what is stripped first before you will be transfixed.

B. If you are transfixed you need to writhe. Its 4 seconds. I doubt it have 4 seconds recovery but i will check later. And true its much more usefull in team. 4 seconds in team is damn a lot. Dazzle when other use Judgement is nasty.

EDIT:

6498h, 5158m, 6498e, 10p, 24432en, 20395w elrxk-<15:52:07.331> starchant dazzle svalis

Rilfgar arrives from the northwest.
6498h, 5158m, 6498e, 10p, 24432en, 20395w elrxk-<15:52:09.694>
You call down a beam of brilliant light upon Svalis.
6498h, 4608m, 6498e, 8p, 24432en, 20240w lrxk-<15:52:10.045>
Rilfgar leaves to the northeast.
6498h, 4608m, 6498e, 8p, 24432en, 20240w lrxk-<15:52:11.026>
Elgar tells you, "I nolonger have tipheret, gave it up in favour of a
guildskill."
6498h, 4608m, 6498e, 8p, 24432en, 20252w lrxk-<15:52:12.368>
-----===== EQUILIBRIUM =====-----
6498h, 4608m, 6498e, 8p, 24432en, 20252w elrxk-<15:52:12.739>

Its around 2.5 sec for human

Just proves I need to duel more in the arena. And I'll start with that once I have wheedled Geb's free system of him (so once I pass my adepts test). And buggered Asmoth about dreamweaving tactics.

(and before one of you enters here and says it's best to make your own system, I plan to once I get a bit of time. Plus getting Geb's system also means getting most if not all of the triggers and probably some ideas I haven't yet thought of.)

Geb's system have way too many buttons

The buttons are my friends.

Don't know why you brought up tipheret against transfix, it doesn't cure it, you need balance to initiate the writhing on transfix (unlike web/hangman) and it takes long long time to get out of.

Sacraments > Necromancy for both guardians and warriors, period. Not even sure why this thread was made, it is reasonably clear and readily agreed upon by knowledgable combatants that necro falls short of sacraments.

I would trade trueheal or heretic/infi/inqui for lich anyday. My only regret would be losing the undead facet of my RP, which is significant.

Ghost is necromancy's bread and butter for me, now that its bugs are pretty much all fixed.

Ixion, you can't leave the Ur'guard. You're definitely a necromancer at heart

Until I see a few more Mags praying, lich will always reign as the best skill in the game.

Heretic/infi/inqui < ghost


And also, the mana cost for the inqui combo is hard on a surged warrior. Power cost for the abilities don't leave much room for lunge. I'd love to see a power reduction on honour.

Plenty of Magnagorans can be forced to pray, unlike Druids who get total immunity from it. But really if people have any sense and conglutination they'll never pray, unless they're caught in a place they're enemied to.

Sorry, but most of the Mag combatants RARELY if ever have to pray. Geb killed Ravlok -three- times yesterday and they guy didn't have to pray.

Holding a person still for inquisition is pretty hard, one on one, in order to strip lichseed.

Transmi is nice though. At least it's contained to -one- archetype within each commune. Lich is available to Nihilists and Ur'Guard.

He didn't pray because we immolated him Malicia..

I rarely see any particularly decent fighters pray to be honest, it's easy enough to avoid by keeping vitae up and not initiating attacks on people so you'll get suspect if you vitae. But I can see your point when it comes to village raiding etc.

He got lucky then, Torak. Still, three times before he actually died? That's pretty impressive. It's also great for bashing, when you lose 0 experience. You can't deny how good the ability is.

BTW two guilds have transmig, two guilds have lich..I don't see the difference . Also, your three times was because of vitae.

EDIT: I am not saying lich isn't good, I am saying transmig is better . Lich is nice but a smart fighter can make a lich pray.