Run away from Influencers.

by Soll

Back to Ideas.

Soll2005-12-31 14:18:59
First off, I'd like to say a massive 'Awesome!' to those who were involved the creation of Influence. It's an amazing concept. There are a few things that make it unequal(no karma/essence), but these aren't too vital.
The one thing, however, that does annoy me with influencing is that it doesn't count enough as a battle, and there are just a few things that seem 'off'.

The first:
When you are fighting something, that's it. Very very few creatures that are commonly hunted run away. Once the fight starts, it will stay with you until the end, or until you run away (It may then, even come searching for you! Bonus!) With influencing, however, the target is free to stroll away at any time, and they often do. Multiple times. This is just plain irritating, and I think it should be made that when an influence battle starts, the creature stays with you until an end is met.

The second:
You can be debated while influencing something else. Personally, I think this is a tad unfair. It happened to me earlier, and it was constantly taking massive chunks out of my ego and eventually led to my loss, including stealing a large chunk of experience. If you're concentrating on influencing, I don't think you'd care enough to even listen to someone elses arguments.

QUOTE
Ialie unscrupulously quibbles about the smallest points in her argument, bringing up esoteric minutiae to support her radical theories. Concentrating on , you dismiss her argument as unimportant with a wave of your hand, not allowing her a single second of your attention.


Thoughts?
Unknown2005-12-31 14:24:27
The first is something we've always hoped would change.

The second though, wouldn't it take away the main point of debating? A peaceful means of stopping someone influencing in a way you don't like?
Soll2005-12-31 14:24:38
Divert, then debate?
Unknown2005-12-31 14:25:53
If divert was made near instant, sure! tongue.gif
Soll2005-12-31 14:28:05
If the thing was that important, they'd be two people there. One to divert, one to debate. biggrin.gif Or, perhaps, divert should make the mob deny being talked to for 5 seconds to gather their thoughts once again, and level up their resistance.
Cwin2005-12-31 14:29:20
The first: Hands down, I like. It makes sense to me, but that may be because IRL you CAN hold me down with a good conversation.

The second: Sorry, but I can't agree there. The #1 point of debate is to use it to take down village influencers (divert is useful but not THAT reliable). Without that...well. there's not much point to it.
Shamarah2005-12-31 14:30:50
Debating influencers is the point of debate, but to avoid stupid exp losses maybe you shouldn't lose exp when you lose to a mob if you're also being debated.
Unknown2005-12-31 14:59:14
Ok, so, my thoughts are:

Yes, influence concept as an alternative for bashing is great. It should be an equal alternative though in terms of experience, time and gold. If it's not, some tweaking should be applied. So your choice whether to slay or influence should be only based on your character's nature, not calculations.

The first - should be like with bashing, some leave, most don't.

The second - during bashing, someone can attack you and 'steal' your health and experience if you die that way. So I don't know if that's unfair.
Shorlen2005-12-31 15:00:32
The first would be nice, but it would also overpower influencing for experience, if you ask me tongue.gif Well, in Lusternia's single influence bashing ground. We really need more, one just isn't enough, especially with Soll now trying to reach Demigod there sad.gif

The second is absurd. Just no. As people have said, it's the entire point of debating. The stupid xp loss may be annoying, but if you have 14 or more charisma, which nearly everyone who influences in a revolt does, you can run before the villager would hit you again, preventing the xp loss. It might be nice though if being debated out auto-diverted any denizens fixiated on you, as you suddenly became uninteresting, sobbing in the corner like that.
Shorlen2005-12-31 15:03:08
QUOTE(Kashim @ Dec 31 2005, 10:59 AM)
The first - should be like with bashing, some leave, most don't.
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No denizen with less than full HP will move from one room to another. If they are currently aggroed on someone, they will try to attack that person. If not, they will sleep until they reach full HP.

Denizens with less than full Ego, however, usually have full HP, and are thus free to wander as they wish. It would be nice, we're saying, if beings with less than full Ego would stand still if fixiated just like denizens with less than full HP, and if they are not fixiated, would wait for their ego to restore fully. I'm fairly certain that denizens have absurdly fast ego regen, so this is only a problem when someone is actively influencing them.
Unknown2005-12-31 15:23:13
QUOTE(Shorlen @ Dec 31 2005, 05:03 PM)
No denizen with less than full HP will move from one room to another. If they are currently aggroed on someone, they will try to attack that person. If not, they will sleep until they reach full HP.
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Cows, merian kids.
Cwin2005-12-31 16:27:20
I like the idea of the mob autodiverting away when you lose a debate. It does the job (getting the influencer off the mob) and it stops the XP loss due to other people (note when you lose XP due to combat, the killer gets suspect).
Soll2005-12-31 16:45:54
I think not losing experience if you lose to a mob while being debated would work over number 2, and having the mob also divert away if you lose a debate and it's still on you.
Richter2005-12-31 18:55:52
One conversation at a time. The fact that you can debate someone while you're influencing something is absurd. You can't debate two people, now, can you? Essentially, you're debating that mob. And don't tell me it's like combat, because is debating or influence like combat? No. I can get a group of my friends to stick pointy things in you, but I can only really pay attention to one argument at once.

The only time that it is even concieveable that someone could gang up on you with influence/debating is if it was the same arguement (you know, like in high school, where a group of cool kids team the uncool ones).

If I'm arguing with my mom, my sister shouldn't be able to walk up and start a debate. Mom would be pissed.
Shorlen2005-12-31 21:12:45
QUOTE(Richter @ Dec 31 2005, 02:55 PM)
One conversation at a time. The fact that you can debate someone while you're influencing something is absurd. You can't debate two people, now, can you? Essentially, you're debating that mob. And don't tell me it's like combat, because is debating or influence like combat? No. I can get a group of my friends to stick pointy things in you, but I can only really pay attention to one argument at once.

The only time that it is even concieveable that someone could gang up on you with influence/debating is if it was the same arguement (you know, like in high school, where a group of cool kids team the uncool ones).

If I'm arguing with my mom, my sister shouldn't be able to walk up and start a debate. Mom would be pissed.
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Please do not use 'realism' as an excuse for anything. It's about game balance. If you were undebatable while influencing, don't you think that's a little overpowered? That's like saying, "because I'm hitting Landantine, noone can attack me. I can't fight two people at once, can I? That would be unfair."
Unknown2005-12-31 22:07:09
QUOTE(Richter @ Dec 31 2005, 01:55 PM)
Blah
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I think it's the other way around. If I was debating with my sister, and my mom came up and took my sister's side, it's twice as hard for me to win the argument with both of them.
Cwin2005-12-31 22:31:54
Besides, realisticly it darn well is possible to argue with someone while trying to convince another to do something. And again, Debate would have almost no use if you couldn't debate influencers (since it's not realy made for ambushes)

Thus, just make damage due to a Loss half and add ONE other thing: Ability to change mindset while off balance. Bad enough that you can't counterdebate while Influencing, but at least be able to defend.
Unknown2006-01-01 00:53:28
QUOTE(Richter @ Dec 31 2005, 06:55 PM)
One conversation at a time. The fact that you can debate someone while you're influencing something is absurd. You can't debate two people, now, can you? Essentially, you're debating that mob. And don't tell me it's like combat, because is debating or influence like combat? No. I can get a group of my friends to stick pointy things in you, but I can only really pay attention to one argument at once.

The only time that it is even concieveable that someone could gang up on you with influence/debating is if it was the same arguement (you know, like in high school, where a group of cool kids team the uncool ones).

If I'm arguing with my mom, my sister shouldn't be able to walk up and start a debate. Mom would be pissed.
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QUOTE(Gwylifar @ Jun 25 2005, 01:47 PM)
But really, it almost makes sense in a twisted way.  You don't have to respond to the debater, you can ignore him.  Which is exactly what you did, and it worked.  So logically, he can't force you to engage in a debate, but you can't stop him from hurling cutting words and incisive logic at you, and you can't not hear it (don't bring up that deafness should prevent debating!), so it can have an effect.  But you don't have to take the bait and respond, and if you don't, provided you remain mentally flexible about it (i.e., change mindsets), you'll triumph.

If anything it makes too much sense, since it renders debate almost useless for the purpose for which it was originally invented.
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Soll2006-01-01 15:06:16
Double post.
Soll2006-01-01 15:06:17
dots.gif

QUOTE
Keeping up a non-stop patter, you keep wheedling --- to give up his worldly goods to you in a dizzying display of circuitous logic.
---'s face drops and he looks a little guilty, but shakes his head at you.

You thrust your hand out to --- and beg shamelessly.
---'s face drops and he looks a little guilty, but shakes his head at you.

--- leaves to the southeast.

You cannot see that being here. - Move to follow.

Explaining your abject poverty, you humbly request for a little help from ---.
---'s face drops and he looks a little guilty, but shakes his head at you.

Keeping up a non-stop patter, you keep wheedling --- to give up his worldly goods to you in a dizzying display of circuitous logic.
---'s face drops and he looks a little guilty, but shakes his head at you.

--- leaves to the southeast. - Move to follow.

You thrust your hand out to --- and beg shamelessly.
---'s face drops and he looks a little guilty, but shakes his head at you.

Ahh, I am truly sorry, but I do not see anyone by that name here.

--- leaves to the north. - Move to follow.

Explaining your abject poverty, you humbly request for a little help from ---.
---'s face drops and he looks a little guilty, but shakes his head at you.

Keeping up a non-stop patter, you keep wheedling --- to give up his worldly goods to you in a dizzying display of circuitous logic.
---'s face drops and he looks a little guilty, but shakes his head at you.

--- leaves to the south. - Move to follow.

You thrust your hand out to --- and beg shamelessly.
---'s face drops and he looks a little guilty, but shakes his head at you.

Explaining your abject poverty, you humbly request for a little help from ---.
--- sighs dramatically and searches his pockets, looking for something to give you.
He gives many golden sovereigns to you.


No-one should have -that- much trouble. blink.gif