cmon avaer, surely you think lusternian designs need to keep originality and flavour, lets see some creative fun suggestions even if for RP only.

I will give my reasoning. Only rescue is needed to help the champion serve his function, protection of his guildmates. Nothing else needs to be added to the artifacts, which amount to overpowering the person who possess one of them. There are already artifacts available to all that push the envelope of balance; having champion artifacts with properties beyond the rescue function can easily push a person over the line. Also, rescue is an awesome function all its own.

Sure, champ arties could give you the locations of everyone in your guild across planes.

They could alert everyone in the local area to the fact that a champion of a guild has entered.

They could let you enter arena events for free if your opponent is a member of your guild.

These won't overpower the champion, however.

i like those suggestions so far.

I think you should be able to turn the alert function off or on, and have that alert customisable within reason (like warcry's, looked at by admins and issuable for inapprorpaiteness)

I think they'd also be useful to have the artifact tell you when someone enters the local area, maybe like those arti goggles or similair. Things like that, utility artifacts not offence boosting ones.

Try and think of what would be useful for your champion duties, not useful for yourself per se.

i'm thinking what would be useful for all champions who are also combatants, we are people too yanno.

I agree with Geb, if you're champion you shouldn't need a special artifact to help you fight.

But get a special item to help you defend. How about:
1. Loyal guards in the room fight with slightly greater fervor.
2. You can BODYBLOCK to take all the hits that would go to them (or something like that)
3. And have trueheal, but make it only work on other people.

There. No advantages for the Champion, many advantages for his/her friends in need.

There was an idea for warriors having a skill that lets them take damage in place of someone else they're protecting. Maybe that could be champions' ability instead?

Have something based on class for like a bodyblock, or something else, warriors would have bodyblock for there champs and say mages could make a magic shield over the defending target that splits half the health with the champ and target on lose or something...

It only depends on the strenght of the relics. Replacing yourself with a guildmate to take him out of danger might as well be an innate ability of all champions instead of a champ artie use.

oo i like the idea of bodyblock, let parry stance and rebounding of the champion take over though, rather than straight hp.

maybe have the champ helm give off an aura to the champion and all allies in the room, giving them boosts to health mana str int etc etc.

Or... not?

He's still drunk, I guess.

oh come on you guys i'm trying to throw ideas around, why NOT have the champ helm give a bonus to allys/guildmates if you're in the room with them, even if its a small one.

Elryn, you're boring i haven't seen you come up with a fun or flavoursome idea yet, i actually haven't seen you try.

Soon i will stop trying and just spout out 'champ arties are FINE as is'

in fact thats a good idea, i believe that. They are FINE as they are, lusternia has more important things to worry about than the 3 or so champions that are actually good fighters who's arties give them a signifcant bonus against others.

The admin have more important things on their minds, like new archetypes and cities.

Champion's Sacrifice: Offer yourself to the Fates instead of a dying guildmember, and they will be resurrected.

Champion's Courage: You can inspire lower-ranked guildmembers with your resolve, forgoing all defences in exchange for a 30% damage shield for one guildmember in your entourage.

Champion's Oath: You can swear the Oath to protect another guildmember, allowing you to sense instantly the moment they are attacked, and consuming your own life should your charge die to another player.

Champion's Gauntlet: You can begin special duels between two characters if one of them is of your guild, costing half of the usual price. The three of you will enter the arena, but all your skills will be disabled and you will be immune to harm. This allows you to engage in instruction inside the arena.

Champion's Deathcry: With your last breath, you will utter a final battlecry that resonates throughout the Basin of Life. All online guild enemies will be stunned for 1-2 seconds.

While this may stir the proverbial cauldron, I don't think it is fair to compare archetype guild artifacts to the others.

Patchou, the Black Shuck, the Grim Horror, and the Handmaiden can be slain. They cannot be resummoned after that period of time for aproximately 2-3 hours. While each is powerful, none of them provide instant leverage. They do, however, provide synergy later on when locking down the target. Before this happens, anyone can kill the damn things.

The Magi/Druid staves do increase damage. However, the amount it is increased is not what I would call excessive. Testing with Munsia, the Glinshari cudgel isn't that much better. The staves also reduce the amount of time needed to meld in half. This too may be nice, but is still a relatively insubstantial buff overall.

The Warrior helms, however, increase damage and wounding and defense. We are talking MASSIVE increases (I've heard estimates of up to 25% more wounding). For anyone who has sparred Lyco, you will note that he can break the 2 second speed cap with the warrior helm -and- can cause medium level wound afflictions (pin leg, for example) on the FIRST COMBO without lunging on a non-warrior.

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Now, I imagine that even if the differences were taken into consideration, someone would feel like they were being targetted. As a result, I agree with the idea to just remove them all. I think it would be nice if wiccans/guardians could keep the companion for roleplay purposes but meh.

Pinleg is heavy, so Lyco can actually achieve heavy wounding (~1300 wounding) in the first two lunges on targets with greatrobes or less, not medium. I have absurdly high cutting armor (115 cutting) and he can get pinleg or impale on me fairly fast and frequent. It is basically way too good, and from what I can remember it's 25%+ poison accuracy, and at least 25% extra wounding and damage potential. Frankly, the champions should be happy they get a 90/90 helm (very good stats) anything else on top of that is just too ridiculous and should be taken out.

The champion helms are scary when stacked with wounding artifacts or when you're Lyco. His l3 speed with no actual downside means he can pin you with mantakaya fast enough to shut down most offence. His writhing time is insane, his tumbling time is insane, he gets a healing potion bonus: Whats the downside?

I really wish stuff didn't stack so whorishly. This would make the helms less gruesome.

lyco's disadvantage is to burst damage, and to medium damage with wounding, given his sip bonus kind of offsets his low hp, so when he has to apply health it hurts his HP healing more than others.

As far as narsrim's concern withthe pet being able to be killed, if I spent my offence moves on the damn champ pet rather than the player, the said champion can EASILY kill me. Kill the champ pet just isn't a viable option against a good player,

I also disagree, the handmaiden and grim can provide an instant boost to your offence, in the form of blackout. You get blackout just before angel hits, and you double tarot right after giving you a significant boost to your opening offence along with the other afflictions it gives.

At the end of the day, sure they may have overcompensated a bit on the champ helm, going from no effects to damn useful ones, so tone those effects down.

Its not worth admin time (which is so precious now) to screw around with the champ arties when there is so much more to worry about than 3 people out of the whole of the game.



On another note, the biggest issue i see is armour affecting wounding so much, now that's a luaternia-wide problem, greatrobes need to give more wounding protection, or perhaps add in a proofing for greatrobes which boosts the amount of deepwounds cured per health application

PS thanks to Avaer for trying to make some nice effects for champions.