from Matt's article on politics in MMOs at the ironrealms website

this sound familiar to anyone?
there is light at the end of the tunnel!

I think the idea of power and loss of skills upon the death of city-aligned denizens was meant to be the solution to that problem here in Lusternia. Unfortunatelly, it didn't quite work. And I think that's mainly because Activity still previals over strategy when it comes to villages and raids, and it would take something incredibly innovative to change that.

That's the "permalosing" scenerio I talked about a while back. Essentualy, a city can be put into a state where they are always taking losses after losses after losses but there's no end in sight: no win that just plain ends the torment. No conflict resolution. You're pain stricken and bleeding but never can get the peace of death.

In truth, I feared that Celest/Magnagora was in that state, but Serenwilde altered it. Now I'm hoping it doesn't happen with Mag/Seren. Still, it'll happen.

We fight, we want each other dead and gone. We accept that. However, we still have no answer to the question "What happens when we win".

I mean, imagine if Serenwilde grew even more powerful and their top fighters could always beat everyone else's fighters. Every revolt leads to a Serenwilde win hands down. Nil/Celestia/Etherglom fights always end in Avatar/half-formed deaths, and everyone is afraid of entering Astral who isn't a Serenwilder.

Essentualy Serenwilde has won. So..now what? Lusternia has some answer to that, given that Serenwilde can go and wipe out everyone's Nexus and keep it dead. Otoh, that's essentualy destroying the other nations: WHO is going to get strong in a nation with no power, no comms, no shield. Avechna will protect the citizens so it won't just turn into a slaughterfest, but they will never be able to become strong enough to overwhelm Serenwilde then.

Stopping it from getting to that point via divine intervention (Mag is losing their spikes! Wait! Raezon just tapped into the soulless giving the Geomancers temporary invincibility. They still have a chance! Blah) since then we might as well not have a war. So the question comes to: What will we do when (not if) it gets to that point?


Suddenly I'm wondering what happened in Aetolia after I left. When their war system came into being Ashtan was in a horrible state. The government was so corrupt and useless that eventually all of the guilds left it. When they got into a war with Bloodloch (twice at least actually) they were sitting ducks. Eventually, they were taken over in full (I think it was: Claim 3/4s of the city including the city hall and you claim the city). I'm not sure what happened there but I know Ashtan eventually was destroyed and a new city came in it's place. Given the way everything was going, there just wasn't a way around it.

I know the Powers that Be here don't want to destroy a city, and I don't think destruction is really required. However, the Story needs to allow for the chance that one of the nations falls out of the competition and declares defeat. If that results in no more competition then we'll have to play the story from there: A peace until either the winning nation fragments for some reason or a new nation comes into the fore. We can even ease it all by allowing people of 'officialy fallen' nations to switch to another nation without a credit loss (that is if they stay in the same archetype).

Still, a plan IS needed. I'll work to keep Magnagora strong, but if it falls I don't want to be left sitting there bleeding without a proper death.

I think though, Cwin, that you sort of pointed out a need to not worry quite so much.

Mag, at one point was beating on both Seren and Celest. Seren got strong enough to stand, and Mag continued to beat on Celest. Then, suddenly, Celest and Seren joined up, and Celest ended up surging ahead for a while, leaving Mag bleeding. But then Mag jumped back into it and knocked Celest down, and Seren rose up even more, bringing Seren and Mag onto roughly level ground. And now that Mag is faltering a bit, its at the same time that the Seren/Celest alliance is falling completely apart.

It seems like you're never quite out of it in Lusternia, as the past year has shown. Everyone has been in the gutter, and everyone has been ontop of the pile (except for Glomdoring, but they actually have a good reason, given they had a late start).

Sure, Mag might be reduced to Celestian status for a while, but sooner or later, the person on top will push their luck, and everyone else will join up and beat them down. Seren and Celest did it to Mag, and its very possible you'll see Celest, Glom, and Mag do it in the future.

There may not be a physical destruction of the losers, but there's nothing saying their ethic and moral base can't be shattered, allowing them to do what they need to survive and pick up the peices later.

I actually don't think we have too much to worry about. I just wish there was some way for strategy to out-weigh activity.

There is already internal decay in Serenwilde *shrug* I think we are in for a few failures soon .

Wouldnt surprise many actually that its about to fall, how many fighters -just- left?

I wont lie and say Dia's not happy..

At first I was ready to argue your point Bear, but you might be right there.

As it is, usualy a nation is overwhelmingly strong because of a few individuals. Once those people go (switching or leaving alltogether, or just not being as capable as they used to) then it leaves the other nations open to recover. A nation tends to stay down here because of a lack of good leadership or they havn't found their top dogs.

So actions like the destruction of the Nexus are ways for a nation to finaly 'win', but once that nation falls the losers can recover. So long as they CAN recover IF the force is gone things will work out.

I'm still worried, but I can see it working out allright. Still, it does mean that we have to accept that our nation CAN fall and CAN lose.

yeah it would be neat if glom could actually take over the wilde and turn it into another wyrded forest
woo

but that will make customers who play there unhappy
and its all about the customers

And, you know, even if it was coded it'd never happen, ever.

Thanks to those damned sylphs.

I just started playing, and am thusly a noob from Achaea. However, it seems that (in Achaea at least) you run a much larger risk of reaching that sort of deadlock because the conflict has mainly been reduced to a two-sided one.

When you have three or more parties, there's always the third guy to look out for. Lusternia was built with 4 in mind, so that will be interesting, especially since the alliances can change to run in multiple directions. Theoretically at least... (Seren and Glom can turn on Mag and Celest for being cities, right? Or Seren and Celest and turn on Mag and Glom for being Taintish right?) As a result, a position of power is somewhat harder to maintain for long periods of time.

If I'm wrong, please kindly point out or something. I'd hate to be wrong about something fundamental like this.

No no you are very right, but there will be more players in this little conflict of ours as time goes on. More cities, perhaps another commune.

The biggest problem I see is villages play to important a role in the game. Nobody can honestly tell me that if they could get all the villages for their Org they would not. Simply, because the Org with the villages has a weighted advantage.

Perhaps we need more frequent revolts again, so that balance can swing more freely again. Right now it is to simple for the group with the largest numbers on at the time to control the outcome of power. Something that each Org should want to do. Every Org should want all the villages it can get, for the simple fact that you are converting them to your beliefs.

I agree with the idea of more revolts. A: More to do in game, keeps players comming back (Once a month is crazy long) and 2: as Gregori said, more swing in Balance. Also, a new village or two that rivals/hates another village or two. That should also help with keeping it more balanced

I actually have pondered something for a while, maybe silly.

Why is it that Demigods still remain as citizens/members of their mortal organization?

Wouldn't it be a positive benefit both to the player and balance of political power if Demigods became free agents, more like Divine... still associated with certain orgs if they like, but not entirely a part of them?

I'd even go so far as to wish a semi-remort style of idea, where the titan/demigods are given new goals and conflict games that are separate to those of the group goals of the various organizations... otherwise the number of Titans in each will gradually become almost the sole determining factor of success.

That's my biggest fear regarding organizational dominance... that those who cannot afford the time to bash to level 90+ become insignificant, and a horde of rampaging demigods tilt the balance far too much to one side.

I think the admins alluded to the fact that titanhood is only a step in the process of something or other... Like there would be a demigodland.. Not that any of that is true, but there was something that put the idea in the heads of some that eventually titan will be a sort of norm for another level of conflict or somesuch..
quiet I'm soooo tired

So if you have one village, you can't turn over its rival? This would prevent a single city/commune from having some sort of monopoly on them. Plus, it makes more sense that you can't have the furrikin village and the furrikin-enslaving village. (I forgot their names, no time to check. And I don't have any idea if this is already implemented.)

There's already restrictions on this to an extent, and they are noticeable, it's just not absolute.

Actually, I'd love it if this was an actual possibility - The thrill of defending the forest would suddenly become much more of a necessity. There would be a lot more actual danger involved. And if this actually happened, the choice between being a part of the Wyrden converts or the resistance would present some very interesting RP.

But I admit I'm a minority.

Well, if it was reversable and relatively minor in scope... it would be ok. But then, there already is that facility in demesnes.