My character is Shakaya, obviously. She was a Serenguard novice, but left both the 'guard and the Wilde because of a small incident when she had already been considering being a rogue.

A few RL days later, I joined Magnagora, so I could draw power and have somewhere to teleport to. The few people who I've told specifically that I was Magnagoran understood that I didn't want it spread around (to prevent the prejudices that immediately came up when it was known).

Shakaya has been influencing denizens all over the Basin, in the different villages and Tosha. This has been happening for... well over two weeks, and she doesn't hide or anything while she does it. And yet a Serenguard asks her to leave because she's Magnagoran and is worried about the farmers (nice joke, Shakaya's a furrikin).

I did ask how she knew I was Magnagoran, she told me she had a 'reliable source'. I told her she was insulting me, and eventually snubbed her to prevent one of those awful conversations about organisations and stuff.

And now this month, someone mentions my being Magnagoran IC, and says she hopes I won't become undead so she can't talk to me anymore. I asked how she knew, and she said 'the website'.

So now I wonder about that first Serenguard, too.

Why is that the website shows your city/commune, yet your honours doesn't? It doesn't show guild. Is it truly acceptable for people to take this information from the website and apply it in-game?

People shouldn't be doing that, ever.

That said, it's not too hard to find out what city/commune someone belongs to.

Right. Just looking at your honours now, you're engaged to a Magnagoran, so it's easy to just take a guess. That's not the only thing that can give you away either.

Of course, I don't know when this was so I couldn't say if the guy actually had any real information...but you definitely shouldn't be taking stuff from the website, no.

No way. If you bring OOC knowledge in game and apply it to your game, not only are you a horrible RP'er, your a scourge to the environment of Lusternia. That wench who told you ' the website ' needs to be beaten with a large ugly stick over and over and over. This enrages me, I thought our players were better than this...

If it was indeed from the website, which I doubt.

At this point it's just a suspicion, an accusation. No need to generalize negatively about the players from such an ambiguous situation.

Though in this specific case the player might have been using OOC information, which is bad, it is indeed very easy to tell what city someone is in. Or at the very least hazard a guess. Lusternia is rife with prejudice and mistrust; whatever organizations you've been a member of, expect lots of people to give you a lot of trouble.

If I check someone's honors, all I need to know is if they're of the Serenwilde (in which case I'd see that) or if they're not. If they're not, I have no reason I need to allow them into Seren territory or trade with them.

Simple.

The thing is, Shakaya only got engaged yesterday. She's been Magnagoran for a few weeks, and it's never caused any problems until this Serenguard spoke to me, especially as she was already influencing in Estelbar and other villages while she was still a Seren. She doesn't have cityrank or a title.

Someone DID actually mention ICly that they knew I was Magnagoran because of the website. That's not just supposing, she said it to me flat out.

And I'm not saying I -need- to be allowed.

Shakaya brings up a good point, something I've been wondering about since I got here. It breaches into tells too, but I won't be that elitistic. Should we consider honours IC? Website definetly not, but since this discussion essentialy deals with both: Being a roleplayer of integrity, should you -really- consider honours IC? Just remember, this place is still young and we can shape it to how we act, and what standards of play we set. Just like how we made thievery dishonorable because it is.

I mean just because there's no GREET or short description system dosn't mean you should always put the code before roleplay. Just today, Nymera (I mispelled that, forgive me..Lyco's mother)asked me who I was, and I gave her my name. Just this tiny bit of sensible realism in roleplay gave the game a more vivid feel for me, as my character seemed in a more realistic situation and I was made to play on those terms - she only knew what he looked, smelt, etc like. Not his name. Because she'd never been told, or asked, or seen it referenced to his appearance. Nymera probably didn't intend this, perhaps she did, I hope so - but it was nice for me and I imagine also players like Shakaya and several other of you roleplayers out there to just have some damn sense of realism to your RP. I realize it'd be rediculous to do this with everything and in a constant manner (such as novices), actually I don't think it'd be rediculous but I don't believe Lusternia is ready or wanting for such a severe turn in gaming style.

But I've probably just gone off topic. Feh.

Yes, I think it's fine to consider honours IC. There's no point ignoring the fact that they're there and clearly visible to everyone, and it's justifiable enough with the whole "hall of records" and "aether strings" thing. Same way you can teleport to people.

While I wouldn't pretend anyone was odd for asking my name IC, I'm certainly not going to go to the effort of doing so, nor will I expect anyone else to.

I consider 'honors person' to be whatever is in the local rumor mill about them sort of a "did you hear that so-and-so did this?"

As for the website, I personally would never go into the players online trying to look to see if someone was in an Org or not, but it's useally very easy to tell, if you are in a guild you have a clan for that guild, then there are things like nation specific cartells, and down the line from there to less reliable info like race, family tree, title, and so on.


An interesting point though, for quite awhile there the only place the histories were, was the website, and anyone IC talking about "the histories" or "the library" ment that. With the introduction of great libraries IC we've gotten away from that, but it's an interesting thing to thing about. just what certain people view as IC and others as OOC.

We useally get a few threads on here everyone once in awhile bring the subject of tells up when people don't make distinctions between ic and ooc tells, for that matter I just put ((OOC:hmm didn't that football team suck last night?)) around my message.


P.S. all of that being said I just went on and Honors'ed you, and only your engagement, and the fact that gloomies let you in dairuchi in the last year gives clues as to what nation you are affiliated with.

all-in-all whomever it was shouldn't have resorted to going to the website, and if they had they shouldn't have out and told it to you *shivers at the oocyness* but what Tsu just said is right, if some serenwilder thought you might be grabing up farmers it was a valid excuse.

While I agree that people shouldn't use OOC sources, it'd be naive to assume -anyone- actually sticks to that.

We have the forums, we have websites, we (most of us) have alts.

People take discussions from the forums in-game, look up on the website whether player XY is online and maybe just hiding off-plane, log on as an alt in an enemy city to get an update of their citizens list and read up logs and news, etc. etc. Not to mention the many chatrooms and messenger conversations out there where in-game information is traded between people who would not know ICly but suddenly do.

So, yeah, it'd be much better if things could be kept ICly, if people could REALLY play a hidden spy for the enemy because their association to the enemy shows up nowhere, but sadly it's not going to work. When it comes down to it, we're all, by and large, metagamers.

Except a few honourable hardcore-rpers who I worship for their valiant attempts but who are, sadly, the tiny minority.

I'm usually around several hours a day, and this was Shakaya's honours to non-Magnagorans until yesterday:


Shakaya (Female Furrikin).
She is 17 years old, having been born on the 6th of Roarkian, 119 years after the Coming of Estarra.
She is ranked 346th in Lusternia.
She is an extremely credible character.
She is a Riverwalker in the Fellowship of Explorers.
She is a member of the clan called 'Twilight Delights Cooking Cartel.'
She is a member of the clan called 'Urynmal eya Lyrethin.'
She is considered to be approximately equal to your might.
She is not currently active in any family.
She is an Honourary Shepherd of the Rocks.
She has scribed the tales of old Celest into the Tome of Remembrance.
She is an honoured Caregiver to the tae'dae cubs in Estelbar.

I actually completed the rockeater quest -after- Celest got the village. Glomdorians actually ignored me in general after the one time I entered Glomdoring as a Serenguard novice. The only Glomdorians I've spoken to were Maelee and Alita, and Alita is now a Seren. (Though I admit she could have told someone, though I asked her to keep quiet about it).

There is absolutely nothing IC to indicate that she is Magnagoran. She doesn't teleport in front of people, she doesn't advertise her Magnagora-cartel recipes to non-Magnagorans and a select few Glomdorians.

But at any rate, Kaya is guildless, knows about three people, and only wants to be left alone to influence. If it weren't for the fact that she uses one of the few Mag-specific recipes for cooking for one of her customers, she'd leave Magnagora and stay completely rogue.

tell random mag is Shakaya in your city?

random mag: CW
random mag: reply yes

one of the many sequences that might of been IC, remember every city has spies for other communes/cities

I'm perfectly well aware of that, please don't be a pain.

This happened at a time when there were about four small Magnagorans around.

In any case, the complaint was mostly about the player honours on the website being used. I was just rather insulted that someone would use that as an excuse for asking a furrikin to leave Estelbar. Especially when said furrikin is a former Seren.

Edit: It was also perfectly obvious that I was influencing. I was standing with Delatini at the time, if I recall correctly, and the only reasons you'd go to Delatini are A: returning farmers, B: the cub quest, and C: influencing. None of which harm the village or Serenwilde in any way. She didn't bother to see what I was doing, she just basically said 'leave or else, you can't possibly be doing anything but harm'.

Gah, misread.

For those who managed to miss it somehow, I'm guildless.

Shakaya
Sex : Female Race : Furrikin
Level : 60 (15%) Rank : Glorious
Health : 2520/2520 Endurance : 11500/11500
Mana : 2880/2880 Willpower : 13300/13300
Ego : 3600/3600 Reserves : 94%
Karma : 12%
You are ranked 346th in Lusternia.
You stand tall as a proud citizen of the Mighty Dominion of Magnagora.
You have reached the rank of 'Serf' in your city.
You are not in a guild.
You are a member of the Gourmonds Cooking Cartel.
You are a Riverwalker in the Fellowship of Explorers.
You are 17 years old.
You were born on the 6th of Roarkian, 119 years after the Coming of Estarra.

Hmm, well... this is tricky.

Your question is whether or not someone should take information off the website and apply it IC. If we don't (and not that I'm advocating we do), how exactly does anyone explain the histories?

Everyone initially read them on the website and then it was assumed their character "knew" them.

The thing is, you can take that into account by assuming your character was brought up learning them. A lot of people assume the memory loss stance, and obviously don't lose -everything-, so that's a possibility. I'm sure there are other ways to go about it.

There is no possible way (other than asking a Magnagoran or watching Magnagoran guards talk to me) to know if my character is Magnagoran.

You can take into account whatever you want. The point, however, is that the information was not learned in an IC context, but rather it was learned in an OOC context and then assumed understood IC.

It is essentially the same. While some may argue that one is the lesser of two evils, in both cases, information is being taken from the website and applied IC.

=====================================================

And truly, I disagree. If I am in question and have a good hunch, I will ask someone and speak as if I'm 100% certain. This is will often prompt the person to ask how I knew, which then tells me that they are.