Jitwix2006-01-16 21:06:43
Now before everyone starts saying things like ‘But Achaea and Aetolia have falconry, we don’t want to copy them’, hear me out. I had lunch with some cousins of mine in the Drakensberg a few weeks ago. One of them is a game ranger, and belongs to a falconry club. I chatted with him for quite a while about falconry, and found it quite interesting. He even took out one of his falcons and perched it on my hand (I had a large leather glove on of course, its talons are incredibly strong.)
I am envisioning a much more true to life version of falconry than what has been done before, focusing not just on attacking enemies, but also on hunting animals for experience. Falconry would be a specialisation of Hunting, which warriors can choose instead of Tracking, and which Druids can choose instead of Ecology.
There would be three groups of Birds of Prey, with the following general characteristics. Perhaps individual species could differ slightly, for example Merlins and Kestrels could be faster and less damaging than Gyrfalcons.
Hawks
Species: Sparrowhawk and Goshawk
Easy difficulty to train and control.
Can kill small animals such as rabbits and squirrels.
Fast flying and attacking speed.
Low damage against enemies.
Falcons
Species: Merlin, Kestrel, Peregrine Falcon and Gyrfalcon.
Average difficulty to train and control.
Can kill small animals, and medium animals such as stoats and turtles.
Slow flying and attacking speed.
Medium damage against enemies.
Eagles
Species: Fish Eagle, Golden Eagle and Tawny Eagle.
Hard difficulty to train and control.
Can kill small and medium animals, and large animals such as deer.
Slow flying and attacking speed.
High damage against enemies.
Technically, a falconer of any skillrank can use falcons from any group. However, while a falconer of low skill would be able to get a hawk to obey them most of the time, falcons would disobey them very often, and an eagle would be likely to attack the falconer. (I am assured thet only three people in the whole of South Africa can hunt properly with eagles.)
There would be two ways of obtaining birds:
Trapping wild birds of prey.
To trap a bird, you would need to first construct a trap. You would then travel to a forest or mountain area, and scale the cliffs or trees. Then you would bait the trap, and leave. Traps have magical alarms that let you know when they are sprung.
Advantages
- Besides the cost of wood and rope for traps, and meat for bait, the birds are free.
- The birds are easier to train, as they know much about hunting already.
Disadvantages
- You may have to set many traps before you trap the specific bird you want, falcons being harder to trap, and eagles even harder.
- The birds are more likely to attack you at first, but will get used to you over time.
Buying bred birds of prey.
There would be an aviary in Avechna’s peak that sells all nine bird of prey species.
Advantages
-You can obtain the exact bird you want.
-The birds are already tame, and have a low chance of attacking you.
Disadvantages
-The birds are expensive.
-The birds are harder to train, as they know little about hunting in the wild.
All birds must be trained in hunting to make them more effective. This would require a substantial amount of time. However, each successful kill a bird makes would give greater experience to the falconer than if they had killed the animal themselves.
Necessary equipment would be a special leather glove, otherwise the birds talons will injure the falconer, as well as a hood, which would calm the bird when it is not hunting. Lures made to look like animals would be required to train the birds to hunt.
Druids that have specialised in Stag or Crow would gain an extra ability called Nightbirds. This would allow them to make special traps to catch two extra birds of prey, not available to warriors. Followers of Stag can trap Great Horned Owls, and followers of Crow can trap Carrion Crows. They would be similar to the falcon group. Both would be invisible at night. The owls would gain greatly in attack strength as the full moon approached, whereas the crows would gain greatly in attack strength as the new moon approached. The falconer in Faethorn would also sell these two birds. (Horned owls can actually be used in falconry, but crows can't.)
Warriors, on the other hand, when specialised in their knighthood skill of choice would gain an ability called Roctaming. This would allow them to trap the mighty Rocs, which are very slow and extremely difficult to train, but can slay almost all land animals smaller than themselves and do greater damage to enemies than eagles.
The birds could also be trained to fish for trout or sea animals, though all except the fish eagle would find this more difficult than hunting land animals.
There is the possibility of a market opening where people can trap birds, train them and sell them for profit.
There is scope for other abilities for spying on or attacking other players, though I am not knowledgeable in PvP combat so I won’t attempt to come up with such abilities.
You may now start saying things like ‘But Achaea and Aetolia have falconry, we don’t want to copy them.’
I am envisioning a much more true to life version of falconry than what has been done before, focusing not just on attacking enemies, but also on hunting animals for experience. Falconry would be a specialisation of Hunting, which warriors can choose instead of Tracking, and which Druids can choose instead of Ecology.
There would be three groups of Birds of Prey, with the following general characteristics. Perhaps individual species could differ slightly, for example Merlins and Kestrels could be faster and less damaging than Gyrfalcons.
Hawks
Species: Sparrowhawk and Goshawk
Easy difficulty to train and control.
Can kill small animals such as rabbits and squirrels.
Fast flying and attacking speed.
Low damage against enemies.
Falcons
Species: Merlin, Kestrel, Peregrine Falcon and Gyrfalcon.
Average difficulty to train and control.
Can kill small animals, and medium animals such as stoats and turtles.
Slow flying and attacking speed.
Medium damage against enemies.
Eagles
Species: Fish Eagle, Golden Eagle and Tawny Eagle.
Hard difficulty to train and control.
Can kill small and medium animals, and large animals such as deer.
Slow flying and attacking speed.
High damage against enemies.
Technically, a falconer of any skillrank can use falcons from any group. However, while a falconer of low skill would be able to get a hawk to obey them most of the time, falcons would disobey them very often, and an eagle would be likely to attack the falconer. (I am assured thet only three people in the whole of South Africa can hunt properly with eagles.)
There would be two ways of obtaining birds:
Trapping wild birds of prey.
To trap a bird, you would need to first construct a trap. You would then travel to a forest or mountain area, and scale the cliffs or trees. Then you would bait the trap, and leave. Traps have magical alarms that let you know when they are sprung.
Advantages
- Besides the cost of wood and rope for traps, and meat for bait, the birds are free.
- The birds are easier to train, as they know much about hunting already.
Disadvantages
- You may have to set many traps before you trap the specific bird you want, falcons being harder to trap, and eagles even harder.
- The birds are more likely to attack you at first, but will get used to you over time.
Buying bred birds of prey.
There would be an aviary in Avechna’s peak that sells all nine bird of prey species.
Advantages
-You can obtain the exact bird you want.
-The birds are already tame, and have a low chance of attacking you.
Disadvantages
-The birds are expensive.
-The birds are harder to train, as they know little about hunting in the wild.
All birds must be trained in hunting to make them more effective. This would require a substantial amount of time. However, each successful kill a bird makes would give greater experience to the falconer than if they had killed the animal themselves.
Necessary equipment would be a special leather glove, otherwise the birds talons will injure the falconer, as well as a hood, which would calm the bird when it is not hunting. Lures made to look like animals would be required to train the birds to hunt.
Druids that have specialised in Stag or Crow would gain an extra ability called Nightbirds. This would allow them to make special traps to catch two extra birds of prey, not available to warriors. Followers of Stag can trap Great Horned Owls, and followers of Crow can trap Carrion Crows. They would be similar to the falcon group. Both would be invisible at night. The owls would gain greatly in attack strength as the full moon approached, whereas the crows would gain greatly in attack strength as the new moon approached. The falconer in Faethorn would also sell these two birds. (Horned owls can actually be used in falconry, but crows can't.)
Warriors, on the other hand, when specialised in their knighthood skill of choice would gain an ability called Roctaming. This would allow them to trap the mighty Rocs, which are very slow and extremely difficult to train, but can slay almost all land animals smaller than themselves and do greater damage to enemies than eagles.
The birds could also be trained to fish for trout or sea animals, though all except the fish eagle would find this more difficult than hunting land animals.
There is the possibility of a market opening where people can trap birds, train them and sell them for profit.
There is scope for other abilities for spying on or attacking other players, though I am not knowledgeable in PvP combat so I won’t attempt to come up with such abilities.
You may now start saying things like ‘But Achaea and Aetolia have falconry, we don’t want to copy them.’
Munsia2006-01-16 21:25:43
Druids wont get it according to gregori qouting estarra. 'druids dont get ents'
Narsrim2006-01-16 21:39:03
Doesn't Imperian have something like this? Taming?
Jitwix2006-01-16 21:42:08
Heh. I know absolutly nothing about any of the Imperian skills.
Kaervas2006-01-16 21:51:14
tsaephai2006-01-16 22:50:24
sounds really good! of course, i like pretty much anything that doesn't have magic, particularly that's ranged or has to do with animals, and that has to do with all three, so i really like the idea there you've!
EDIT: what about condors?!
EDIT: what about condors?!
Unknown2006-01-16 22:58:23
QUOTE(Kaervas @ Jan 16 2006, 05:51 PM)
From what i understand its bugged into hell... but a cool concept.
As for the falconry idea its cool, but it just seems like another weapon. I mean, think about it -
Fast (flying and) attacking speed.
Low damage against enemies.
can be used to describe a rapier as well, neh?
Needs something else to spice it up, IMHO.
Shakaya2006-01-17 00:23:42
Taming is fun. 
I don't see them implementing falconry, unfortunately. But you never know!
I don't see them implementing falconry, unfortunately. But you never know!
Verithrax2006-01-17 00:54:20
Taming is fairly new in Imperian, that's why it's bug-ridden. Oh, and about Falconry, I think it would be cool if it would fit in with a guild, not a separate skill (Maybe allow Trackers to choose between a hound and a bird, each with different skills? Rogues would get a really crappy hawk, so being a rogue warrior would be better.)
Strakc2006-01-17 01:12:53
No communes get wolves, cities get hounds, and well let the rogues have the falcons, that sounds good ot me or something
Jitwix2006-01-17 08:33:25
QUOTE(Dyr @ Jan 17 2006, 12:58 AM)
From what i understand its bugged into hell... but a cool concept.
Fast (flying and) attacking speed.
Low damage against enemies.
can be used to describe a rapier as well, neh?
Needs something else to spice it up, IMHO.
Fast (flying and) attacking speed.
Low damage against enemies.
can be used to describe a rapier as well, neh?
Needs something else to spice it up, IMHO.
247090
You have a good point. How about the following changes:
Hawks
Species: Sparrowhawk and Goshawk
Easy difficulty to train and control.
Can kill small animals such as rabbits and squirrels.
Fast flying speed.
Gives enemies very low chance to miss.
Very low damage against enemy loyals.
Falcons
Species: Merlin, Kestrel, Peregrine Falcon and Gyrfalcon.
Average difficulty to train and control.
Can kill small animals, and medium animals such as stoats and turtles.
Slow flying speed.
Gives enemies low chance to miss.
Low damage against enemy loyals.
Eagles
Species: Fish Eagle, Golden Eagle and Tawny Eagle.
Hard difficulty to train and control.
Can kill small and medium animals, and large animals such as deer.
Slow flying speed.
Gives enemies medium chance to miss.
Medium damage against enemy loyals.
All birds must be trained in hunting to make them more effective. This would require a substantial amount of time. However, each successful kill a bird makes would give greater experience to the falconer than if they had killed the animal themselves. You must be in the same room as animal you are attacking. Birds can also be ordered to harry other players. This will increase their chance to miss. Eagles will also have a chance of blinding enemies.
Druids that have specialised in Stag or Crow would gain an extra ability called Nightbirds. This would allow them to make special traps to catch two extra birds of prey, not available to warriors. Followers of Stag can trap Great Horned Owls, and followers of Crow can trap Carrion Crows. They would be similar to the falcon group. Both would be invisible at night. The owls would gain in flying speed and kill animals more successfully as the full moon approached, whereas the crows would do likewise as the new moon approached. The falconer in Faethorn would also sell these two birds.
Warriors, on the other hand, when specialised in their knighthood skill of choice would gain an ability called Pointers (replacing Rocs). This would allow them to request a pointer from their kennel. The pointer can be sent to find an animal in the area you are in. You can then follow it to the animal and release your bird on it.
Isn't the fact that you can kill animals for more xp spicey enough?
Unknown2006-01-17 10:33:57
Wow, as a Falconer I can say there's some serious misunderstanding about the differences between Hawks, Falcons and Eagles.
In terms of effectiveness at "taking" game they are all just as good as each other, the size of prey they catch is limited by their own size, a sparrowhawk being smaller than a hare could never "take" a hare purely because the hare has more weight than it but having many wounds from birds I can safely say that the talons and beaks of them all are just as powerful maybe with the exception of vultures whose beaks always give much nastier and deeper cuts than the others.
Difficulty in training is also a strange concept, Eagles are VERY easy to keep alive, but due to their pure size are hard to handle just because you have to be very strong, and the eagle is much more likely to decide you are not its primary source of food plus a lot of eagles are just plain bad tempered. A sparrowhawk conversely if you mess up its flying weight by as little as a quarter of an ounce, you will kill it within a day or two they are also much more fussy about what the will take and where they will take it and require a completely different style of training than Hawks.
This is why beginners are told to start with birds like Common Buzzards and Harris Hawks (which are buzzards not hawks). The Common Buzzard is a lazy hunter so if you want spectacular flight from your bird then it may not be for you (but a well trained buzzard can do some beautiful flights) the fact they are lazy however means they are more than happy for someone to feed them, and are therefore much more likely to accept you as a food source simply because its easier. Harris hawks are similar but have more of a tendancy to start viewing you as her mother (a VERY bad thing™) but if handled well can give much more spectacular flights than a Common Buzzard. Also Harris Hawks are the only bird of prey that display a pack mentality and two Harris Hawks hunting together will help each other rather than compete, and seeing that is really impressive.
Falconry is strange to explain to people who haven't raised a falcon, they go to shows and see good falconers with a bird that seems to be friends with its trainer but the concept of loyal birds of prey is silly. Your bird stays with you only as long as you make a useful hunting partner, you can have had a bird for 10 years and she will leave you the first chance she thinks its better to hunt for herself.
So umm what was the point of the thread again.
EDIT: and as a note beofre people think I am sexist all falconry birds are called "she" for historical reasons whether they are male or female, mainly because all birds of prey display sexual dimorphism i.e. Females are larger than males (in many cases MUCH larger) so female birds were always prefered since they could take larger prey. Its also partly because its impossible to sex a bird without surgery or untill it lays eggs, and size is the only rough clue you have.
In terms of effectiveness at "taking" game they are all just as good as each other, the size of prey they catch is limited by their own size, a sparrowhawk being smaller than a hare could never "take" a hare purely because the hare has more weight than it but having many wounds from birds I can safely say that the talons and beaks of them all are just as powerful maybe with the exception of vultures whose beaks always give much nastier and deeper cuts than the others.
Difficulty in training is also a strange concept, Eagles are VERY easy to keep alive, but due to their pure size are hard to handle just because you have to be very strong, and the eagle is much more likely to decide you are not its primary source of food plus a lot of eagles are just plain bad tempered. A sparrowhawk conversely if you mess up its flying weight by as little as a quarter of an ounce, you will kill it within a day or two they are also much more fussy about what the will take and where they will take it and require a completely different style of training than Hawks.
This is why beginners are told to start with birds like Common Buzzards and Harris Hawks (which are buzzards not hawks). The Common Buzzard is a lazy hunter so if you want spectacular flight from your bird then it may not be for you (but a well trained buzzard can do some beautiful flights) the fact they are lazy however means they are more than happy for someone to feed them, and are therefore much more likely to accept you as a food source simply because its easier. Harris hawks are similar but have more of a tendancy to start viewing you as her mother (a VERY bad thing™) but if handled well can give much more spectacular flights than a Common Buzzard. Also Harris Hawks are the only bird of prey that display a pack mentality and two Harris Hawks hunting together will help each other rather than compete, and seeing that is really impressive.
Falconry is strange to explain to people who haven't raised a falcon, they go to shows and see good falconers with a bird that seems to be friends with its trainer but the concept of loyal birds of prey is silly. Your bird stays with you only as long as you make a useful hunting partner, you can have had a bird for 10 years and she will leave you the first chance she thinks its better to hunt for herself.
So umm what was the point of the thread again.
EDIT: and as a note beofre people think I am sexist all falconry birds are called "she" for historical reasons whether they are male or female, mainly because all birds of prey display sexual dimorphism i.e. Females are larger than males (in many cases MUCH larger) so female birds were always prefered since they could take larger prey. Its also partly because its impossible to sex a bird without surgery or untill it lays eggs, and size is the only rough clue you have.
Narsrim2006-01-17 23:20:00
QUOTE(AlyssandraAbSidhe @ Jan 17 2006, 06:33 AM)
Falconry is strange to explain to people who haven't raised a falcon, they go to shows and see good falconers with a bird that seems to be friends with its trainer but the concept of loyal birds of prey is silly. Your bird stays with you only as long as you make a useful hunting partner, you can have had a bird for 10 years and she will leave you the first chance she thinks its better to hunt for herself.
247322
Which is why I'll stick to puppies and kittens. I need something fuzzy that loves me as much as I love it.
Acrune2006-01-17 23:43:12
I've always wanted a bird of prey 
An elf owl or a screech owl would be neat. Pocket sized 
An elf owl or a screech owl would be neat. Pocket sized Vix2006-01-18 02:21:17
I'm not sure if it's falconer approved, but the My Side of the Mountain series taught be a lot about falcons. Like Alyssandra said, the information about the hawks/falcons/eagles does seem to be a little bit off.
Unknown2006-01-18 09:43:56
QUOTE(Acrune @ Jan 18 2006, 12:43 AM)
I've always wanted a bird of prey An elf owl or a screech owl would be neat. Pocket sized
An elf owl or a screech owl would be neat. Pocket sized 247558
Owls are my own area of interest, they are more awkward to train than other birds of prey mainly because they are nocturnal and noisy as hell. You won't get to see spectacular hunts as you have to hunt with them at night, with no light and in wooded areas. This isn't the case for some stranger species like Malaysian Fish Owls but having an owl that fishes and not takes game may not be what most people want. Plus they are restricted ownershop by license and they are HELLA expensive.
Jitwix2006-01-18 20:37:05
QUOTE(AlyssandraAbSidhe @ Jan 17 2006, 12:33 PM)
Wow, as a Falconer I can say there's some serious misunderstanding about the differences between Hawks, Falcons and Eagles.
In terms of effectiveness at "taking" game they are all just as good as each other, the size of prey they catch is limited by their own size, a sparrowhawk being smaller than a hare could never "take" a hare purely because the hare has more weight than it but having many wounds from birds I can safely say that the talons and beaks of them all are just as powerful maybe with the exception of vultures whose beaks always give much nastier and deeper cuts than the others.
In terms of effectiveness at "taking" game they are all just as good as each other, the size of prey they catch is limited by their own size, a sparrowhawk being smaller than a hare could never "take" a hare purely because the hare has more weight than it but having many wounds from birds I can safely say that the talons and beaks of them all are just as powerful maybe with the exception of vultures whose beaks always give much nastier and deeper cuts than the others.
247322
Perhaps the best then is to not group them but give each one individual attributes.
Prey that can be killed:
Red Sparrowhawk
Bats, rats, weevils.
Black Sparrowhawk
Squirrels, snakes, rats, weevils.
Goshawk
Squirrels, snakes, lizards, crabs, rats, weevils.
Black Harrier
Squirrels, frogs, rats, weevils.
Kestrel
Squirrels, snakes, lizards, rats, weevils.
Peregrine Falcon
Rabbits, squirrels, snakes, lizards, rats, weevils.
Lanner Falcon
Squirrels, snakes, lizards, rats, weevils.
Tawny Eagle
Rabbits, squirrels, snakes, lizards, trout, salamanders, frogs, rats, weevils.
Jackal Buzzard
Rabbits, squirrels, snakes, lizards, rats, weevils.
Fish Eagle
Monkeys, stoats, rabbits, squirrels, snakes, lizards, trout, salamanders, frogs, rats, weevils.
Crowned Eagle
Sheep, cats, monkeys, stoats, rabbits, squirrels, snakes, lizards, trout, salamanders, frogs, rats, weevils.
Great Horned Owl
Rabbits, squirrels, snakes, lizards, rats, weevils.
The other main attributes would be speed and difficulty to control. (Perhaps the experinced gained from a successful killing would be greater for bird thare more difficult to control?) I don't think I know enough to work these out for each bird. Anyone want to try?
Daganev2006-01-18 20:41:05
Replace Tracking with Taming... Please!
Terenas2006-01-18 20:58:56
Taming was so stupidly overpowered that people posted constantly to get it downgraded. I'd rather that Tracking was made to be more unique, instead of 50% or so based off Woodlore from Achaea. 
Daganev2006-01-18 21:02:13
well, I'm not sure what taming does, or how you get pets or any of that stuff... however, the skillset itself looks much cooler than Tracking.
You get tracking for the hound anyways, but then again I don't see traps being usefull outside of the arena.
But I imagine Tracking was designed early on in the Lusternia development.
You get tracking for the hound anyways, but then again I don't see traps being usefull outside of the arena.
But I imagine Tracking was designed early on in the Lusternia development.
