Then what he wanted was quite simply impossible. I cannot permit Hajamin, or some other representative of his, into the guild to read the news and ghelps - and nor should he have expected such, which I'm assuming would have been the only resolution since I tried every other alternative.

I suppose I shouldn't expect too much though, as I'm not the clearly unethical one of Hajamin and I.

For one -you- never spoke to me. Ashar did. He told me that you had sent letters to Hajamin.. which he never got. So I told Ashar to send them again and to send me a copy as well because I know that sometimes you do not receive letters in Haven. I never got your letter (and I made a point of haning around on prime often and long enough to receive letters) and as far as I know Hajamin didn't either.

If you did not like those 'accusations' you should have tried to put them right without flat out attacking people. It's too late now in either case, you had your chance(s), you missed them.

Yes, I spoke to you several times, requesting to speak to Hajamin or for you to deliver a message to him. I'm sorry you don't recall that. Nor, in my experience, have multiple letters just up and vanished mysteriously.

I'm no longer concerned with the enemy statuses themselves - I just returned the favor and enemied all the Paladin and Celestine leadership to Magnagora at that time. After all, I'm sure you're telling your novices to go into Magnagora, or Magnagoran territories, and defile Fain and Raezon's shrines. Safety first, and all that, and case closed in my book.

However, what I am concerned with is when you post here making it sound like we just sat around and did nothing to disprove the blatant lies about Nihilist and Ur'Guard practices concerning our novices. We do not, not have we ever, put novices in danger by requiring or asking them to defile shrines, because that would be unethical and irresponsible.

Edit: Apologies to everyone else for this derail, but I'm not too fond of people coming onto the forums and lying, whether intentionally or otherwise, about what happened in this situation.

Letters only work same-plane I thought, because I never get mail If I'm on Ethereal, only when I step back to prime do the owls find me, and I'm sure I've sent a letter to someone who was sitting online on ethereal at the time, and about 20 minutes later, the moment they steped onto prime the letter found them.

unless it's all just been convient timing


oh, and pssh, to all of this, we both know both cities stupidly enemy people, god, I was enemyed because I was standing on earth, not attacking anything, and gelo or gero *i get them confused* killed the earth lords, some 5% of my might without thirdeye novice poped up and that was word enough to enemy me, I tryed to get it removed, talking with Geomancer leadership and was told I'd need to pay the 20,000 total fine after waiting 1 year (aka, the normal thing, they didn't even think about the circumstances or listen to me), there was no consideration, but whatever I took that to be IC RP, so I didn't *%&$# about it on here, Mag does what they want when they want when it's in their best interests.



ah, and need i remind you that you enemy people for killing grubs, and yet glom and your own people kill them and don't get enemied . and vice versa for Celest and Water I believe..

(oh, and ya know, if i had in fact been enemyed for something I did, even something as minor as killing grubs it wouldn't have urked me, because I would have known I took a chance at getting enemyed for doing it, instead of "you were seen standing on earth for 2 minutes by a novice without thirdeye, as someone else who we've had problems with before killed the earth lords, so you must have killed them too")

You're right, you made a few posts balantly insulting everyone who would dare not believe you. If that's what you call 'taking care of the situation' then seriously, did you expect to get unenemied after those posts?

Other than that however, no I have never heard anything from you. I know that Ashar made a point of dealing with the situation but all I could tell him was to make you talk to Hajamin. He had made it clear right in the beginning that he would only accept the GM's to talk to him as this was a situation that concerned the whole guild. To my knowledge you never did. The letters I requested to be send to me as well never came..

Edit: In response to Nokraenoms edit. I can only say what happened or to me more preceise what didn't happen. I never received those letters and if you ever talked to me then only very shortly.. Ashar bothered about it and tried several times. If you want to call me a liar for telling that.. then suit yourself.

The same usually happens to me when I leave Haven. That's why I used to do that at least once per rl day to make sure I received all the letters.

The gods do get letters. The problem was Hajamin was so busy as a coder I guess he never checked the Lusternian Postal System. I wrote a letter to him apologizing for the misunderstanding in Celestia. He only knew about it 'cause I got to see him on IRC when he was trying to get feedback for the anniversary weekend. Then he responded in-game. So it's quite possible Hajamin has a bunch of letters that he never saw or read.

Sadly, he said I would get unenemied to his order if I kept his shrines clean for a year. I ended up cleaning a LOT of shrines on Celestia. Sadly, I didn't push him to do it since I knew how busy he was game-wise.

I guess I'm gonna have to go on trial or something...

The posts were made when it was clear that Hajamin had no intention whatsoever of listening to anything I said. At that point, it was decided it was better to publicly damage his reputation than to continue bashing our heads against a wall fruitlessly. So yes, you didn't receive your letters because it had been weeks already since the situation first occurred, and Hajamin refused to listen to anyone (e.g., I'll talk to you but I don't care what you have to say!), and eventually refused to even talk to me. That was also the point at which I enemied all the Paladin and Celestine leadership. I felt bad when I got a number of legitimate complaints from them asking why they'd been enemied, but I guess they know how the Nihilist and Ur'Guard leaders feel to have been enemied for no real reason at all.

It sounds difficult to me to damage another's reputation when you scar your own

So yeah, when you wrongfully punish another person, its a bit wrong to assume they are going to talk to you with the utmost civility. I'd only expect that type of behaviour if I -wanted- to make sure I enemied them for no reason at all.

*enemy random*

random tells you, "Excuse me, Why did you enemy me?"

You tell random, "How Dare you speak to me that way?! Call me by my proper name of Supreme master over all, and have your parents talk to me directly, I can't be bothered with someone of your stature!"

Hajamin is a God afterall. I'd f-ing demand respect every chance I got too. *zap Daganev*

Sadly, I refuse to twiddle my thumbs and do nothing while the ever-illustrious Hajamin apparently doesn't deal with IC actions unless you ask him to in an OOC place like IRC. There's a point at which you have to cut your losses and run.

And you do that by being a hypocrite? Interesting strategy.

Hajamin's idea of respect and everyone else's seems to differ then. I assure you, I am rather respectful of the Divine when I speak to them. I suppose Hajamin, both IC and OOC, just didn't like people pointing out when he was wrong. Looks like the same attitude that got him fired.

It goes to show how insubstantial your argument is when you are reduced to low blows to try and prove your point. It doesn't help that you cry foul and in turn do the same damn thing.

Oh noez, I was "wrongfully" enemied. I know! I'll "wrongfully" enemy other non-involved persons to prove a point.

Gloating and pointing fingers doesn't suit you Nokraenom. I thought you were above that really.

Aside from that, what's done is done. Ranting here and trying to pull someones repuation in the dirt who's no even here anymore to say anything about it won't change it in the least.

If anything, Nokraenom had damaged his own reputation in this process. Being a hypocrite isn't an appealing characteristic.

Nor has it been my direct intent to pull anyone's reputation into the dirt. I saw you claiming that the GMs did nothing about the situation, as though we didn't care. I posted and explained otherwise, citing examples of what specifically was done. If you feel what he did harmed his reputation, then I'm sorry, but I'm not going to skirt around it just to be polite when people are trying to spin the facts to make it look like Ixion and I don't care, when the opposite is true. I merely presented a different reason why the matter was never solved - a God's mistakes and carelessness. I'm sorry if you don't like that reason since you were both close to Hajamin as members of his order and liked him, but it's no less valid for it.

Regarding your jabs, Narsrim, yes, the character Nokraenom can be pretty hypocritical at times. He'll return fire with fire, if it's clear that a better solution can't be reached. That's an IC matter and you're welcome to have whatever opinions on it that you like.

Don't be so loud Daganev. Do you remember when you enemied me to Glomdoring?

I was in a manse inducting someone in the Aspirants clan and you enemied me out of the blue. When I asked why you said because Rafael had enemied Aurella to Celest during an influence and I was the only prominent Celestian that wasn't enemied to Glomdoring yet!

Now Rafaels enemying of Aurella was in no way justified but I didn't even had any clue he had done it since I hadn't checked the logs yet.. but somehow this was all my fault.

So don't be so loud Daganev, you've done what you accused other people of doing.

Read your posts Nokraenom. At first it may have been explaining your view of the situation but soon that changed. You pointed fingers, you gloated about Hajamin being fired, you called me a liar.

Maybe you sent those lettes, maybe not. All I know is that they were never received and that only Ashar ever really talked to me on that subject.

It's gone and past now, let it rest.