that just nerfs the demesne without making it any better anywhere else.

All the mages and druids HATE setting up demesnes and it detratcs from the game for them.

Everything in Imperian is hardcore.

Yep, Imperian is Extreme IRE. All of the classes there are beefed up compared to their Achaea equivalent.

I never hated setting up my demesne.. I hated that I was about as tanky as a wet paper bag and warriors could take me down in two swings.

I would also like to petition Estarra that during village influencing I can only be attacked by one warrior at a time.

And remember skills arent balanced for group combat.

If my idea was used it would mean mages would have to work together not just have one sit there and bring everyone in, game tactics would change. Not everything needs to be nerfed and readjusted to make the people stop whining.

Rofl. Stupid generalizations like this aren't going to win you any favors. There are in fact people out there who *like* their demesne.

Just the things you dislike need that, correct? Right now you look like you are whining for change without considering the consequences. You may think it sounds good stating mages would have to work together, but you seem lack the understanding that there are no real skills for mages to collaborate on. So if you are going to whine and wish to have one aspect of the game changed to suit your desires, then you better well expect that those that will be effected will request changes that balance out what was taken from them.

I'd give my soul to have more maneuverability as a mage without having to worry about 50 other rooms. It gets bothersome doing the same routine over and over again, and in my opinion, mage demesnes make Lusternian combat very stagnant. Demesnes are easy to make, hard to break if you have a good defense and they are just TOO damn important. The city that doesn't have a mage will always lose, and this makes it very stressful for mage players because of the overwhelming importance of a demesne. Psionics made a good attempt at bringing combat out of the demesne, but it still lacks in many things to make a mage completely reliant upon it. In any case, I'd love to see an overhaul on mages. Get rid of demesnes, please.

Hmm you could go about keeping the demense and kind of having another demense on top of it, like a tier system for the same mage.


Badly explained but the mage can meld/demensce as many rooms as he likes same as normal or with a large number like 50, but the mage then has to lay down a call it what ever you want mini demense that must be inside his melded area this mini demense will be a max limit of 5 or so rooms with powerfullish effects. This mini demense is mobile inside the larger demense though. This removes murphys problems of a mage demensce being able to cover miles with amazing dehilibating effects and summons. But it wouldnt nerf mages solo as they still have moblity inside their own demensce 5 rooms before having to move, and the movement of the mini demensce inside the larger demensce wouldnt have a large equi or balance or power drain.

The most powerfull hindering effects and such would be in the 5 room limit where as things like an alarm would be in the larger demensce, also if the mages dont have it now add in a travel effect in the larger demensce so that they are able to in group combat effectivly lead the group around the large demense protecting it and not just sit back summoning people one by one.


Its not perfect but it seems more fun in group combat?

How would that make it more fun? Mages/Druids have to do exactly the same things to set up and control a demesne, they just can't use all of it at once and have to run around a hellova lot more to be effective.

It would be much easier to break (and break back) demesnes, making the god awful part of constant redemesning even worse than it is now. The only thing it would do is nerf the effect of demesnes for anyone else in them, but that's probably the only thing that will happen now anyway, from what people are suggesting.

I'd just rather demesnes themselves were reevaluated. Limiting their size really doesn't do much except make their placement more strategic.

I doubt many of those mages have had that much experience holding one. Demesnes look very neat until you are the one with the biggest impact on determining if your city gets the village, if you kill the invaders, etc.

These are the only effects that I fear in any demesne:

A. Poison (With hunger, time is always on the demesne holders side)

B. Demesne Summon

C. Wisp when breaking an enemy druid's demense (Wisp is not a demesne effect, but it is something I have to worry about when I am off-equilibrium longer than the grace periord I receive from a wisp attempt).

The above are the only effects that I worry about. Some others are annoying, but they are not debilitating to me at all. Demesne effects are no where near the strength of Vibes, and therefor I do not get this impression that some of you have that demesne effects are so debilitating. My main problems with demesnes are what I've mentioned above and the extreme sizes that some can be expanded to. So large that they can be made unbreakable except under certain extraordinary circumstances. Again, if demesnes were to be made smaller than 20 rooms or more cumbersome to maintain, then the effects will have to be increased to vibes levels. Plus, mages/druids will have to be made more sturdy regardless of what tertiary skill-set they choose.

Isn't poison just like a warrior's wounding?

I don't see a problem with it, personally.

Edit: I mean, like wounding, it is easy for the harm to stack if you are not careful so that the longer you are engaged in combat, the harder it is to keep up with it. Although, since poison is cured simply by eating, it isn't quite as difficult to balance with other healing, I would have thought.

I hate fighting against it, but I wouldn't call it a problem with demesnes.

I think the problem with bringing vibe-like mages to Lusternia is that Lusternia is kinda unique when compared to other IRE realms. Demesnes were a unique addition to make our mages nothing like any of the mage classes in the other realms. I would much prefer canning the idea of vibes (or vibe-like effects) in return for a new skillset altogether. Personally, I don't think we will see the end of demesnes, and would gladly take something else. If you are going to limit demesnes, I would STILL prefer having another choice so to make me choose whether I want to be a distance mage or a head-on mage.

I think demenses are needed as well for village defense, just based on the fact of how crappy guards are in Lusternia. Uber-knights and high level folk can tank a massive amount of guards, so defense here is much more difficult than the land of totems and uber-guards that populate other realms.

Druids already get metamorphosis: Stagform and Crowform. I don't know about Crow, but most Stag abilities are much more useful in Stagform. Druidry and Elementalism can very well be changed into a skill like Elementalism in Achaea/Imperian; skills that affect the target independently and a single time. Or you can make Druidry something like Groves; at the very least, would make forests easier to defend, compensating for the Flow nerf.

I don't want groves here, I think Geb's idea of lowering the size and monos stopping summons will work fine. Also, flow needed to be nerfed, it is now balanced and no compensations need to be made.

Perhaps you don't have to fear poison gas because you don't actually break geo demesnes with the effect going? It is manageable with the scrolls now, but the protection scrolls are not the cheapest things to acquire, and the protection can be dissolved. I fight in an enemy's demesne, so I deal with the effects of hunger using up my food supplies (which are not cheap to maintain).

The fear I have with poison is that food is expensive and I will run out of it. It can only be extended to about 20 days durability and it takes up a lot more space than a healing vial. Last, food has different levels of hunger satiation. The better the level of satisfaction it gives, the more it will cost the person. The poison from a geo-demesne can run a person down from fully satiated to hungry very quickly, costing the person far more gold than the healing a person would use up in multiple fights with warriors.

Last, I did not call it a problem with demesnes, I made it a part of the list of things that I fear when dealing with demesnes. Since poison gas is a geo-demesne effect that can not be effectively removed without removing the demesne itself or killing the owner, it is an effect that a person who fights in it has to deal with. Since I have to deal with the effect, and I can end up running out of food, I fear the possible stacking of damage and unconsciousness that can occur from not being able to eat. Some of us actually last long enough in a geo demesne that hunger does become an added consideration.

In that case, I agree with you. It is the most powerful demesne effect that any mage or druid has, but I was confused by this statement:


As I said, I hate fighting against it - being Faeling and not usually carrying much food, it kills me. It is the thing I fear the most about the geomancer demesne. However, I can see how a prepared fighter of larger size can deal with the effect, and I don't think it is something that needs to be 'fixed' (except for maybe boosting the other demesnes up to geomancer level ).

20 rooms would be a good start, but the majority of mages who have posted here (and thus the only ones who's opinions really matter.....love Murph-logic) have said they don't like demesnes. The most competent mage fighter in lusternia, who is also en envoy an IRE veteran and a genuine smart bloke (geb i'm talking about) doesn't even use them half the time. Yes, part of the problem is the summoning, but i think there is still another direction mages can be taken that isn't a copy of other IRE games, and doesn't rely on demesnes.

I should have focused on the size part then. I could have made myself a bit clearer I believe. The size that demesnes can be extended to is a problem to me.