Wait, this happened on Celestia? So... that would mean they were raiding you, right? Which means that they are the ones who Aren't waiting for the opposing fighters to leave, and as far as I can see has little to do with the conflict on Nil, yes?

And if that's all true, then what's your point? Clearly what you posted would be an argument against you...

It was a constant battle back and forth between water/earth/celestia. We'd raid Earth for essence for Terentia. They'd raid Water for essence for Fain... and then they'd raid Japhiel to try and lock him down so we couldn't turn in essence (we actually didn't have a cubix most of the time so we never raided Nil during that).

In sum, we were all raiding each other trying to get essence.

EDIT:

I must say though that I did enjoy myself. It reminded me of told times because both teams had full forces and we each would win/lose, but really just kept going and going trying to get enough essence for our side.

+10 points on the Vesar respect-o-meter.

It was a fun event. Except for the incident with Japhiel. Ahem.

100% agreed. It doesn't even take a while- it's always the same spewed repeatedly. Ego massage. There's no other point to it.

I've actually turned shouts off for good since this seems to be so common now, no matter which side starts the conflict.

I'm really beginning to feel that way recently. The last week or so most of the raids on Earth/Nil have been when our numbers were extremely scarce. I recall one day when Daevos said farewell to the city and only 5 minutes later something is raided. This could just be coincidence I guess but it isn't pleasant. I enjoy defending against raiders occasionally but not when there's no chance of beating them away and 100% chance of dying repeatedly. After a while I just figure to let them sit up there until they're good and bored instead of letting them rack up the xp from killing me.

Last night was a perfect example of no one really being around. Our geomancer was tiny, we had no demesne and our fighters were out numbered and generally we had no chance. Me and Thoros has a nice convo about it and alot of other issues though.

EDIT: Needless to say I have given up on defending when its me and maybe two others against Narsrim and friends in a demesne.

There has been a stage where the same time where everyday, without fail, Nil and the Stonelords would be hit. Same time. When it's only myself, and newbies. Then they'll go raid out villages. There's nothing that can be done about it.

That's the situation he's talking about. Not the times where raids are staged when there -are- people to defend.

*yawn*

We raid when we have a cubix at our disposal.

We do not purposely wait until all of Magnagoras fighters are gone. I seem to remember raids where- Ethelon, Athana, Ixion, Torak, Rakor, Navaryn, Balizar and a host of others were on Nil, attempting to defend it. Normally, when Kaervas or Daevos are there, they use worldburn to flush us out. And that has happened quite often so you see, you cannot say that no one is ever around to defend. Even your 'top' fighters.

Everyone shouts. So long as the shouts are in character, I don't see the problem. I guess you all need tougher skin.

Another thing- If anyone is going to claim that Magnagora has never hit Celest when their numbers/fighters are few, you need to be slapped. For me, a raid isn't about waiting until it's late. It's waiting until we have enough good people to raid, a cubix, etc.

That was one raid out of how many? but I agree it doesn't only happen on one side. It has just only been very apparent to me as of lately. I don't know maybe I'm imagining things.

That was more than one raid, Athana. There was another time where Ethelon went to pay us a visit on Celestia because you guys couldn't get us off. There have been plenty of times when there have been plenty of people up there to defend. Glomdoring even came to help once. Lyco and Iblis. Ciaran too.

We know that most Mags never sleep. *grins* (j/k) I don't wait until you guys leave to raid. We wait for our cubix-man to show up!

No where in the rulebook does it say, wait until all citizens of Magnagora are present before you raid. If so, I'd like for no one in Mag to raid Celestia unless Amaru, Geb, Shamarah, all of our Paladins and Celestines are present to defend. In fact, all of Celest. That'd be fair. Either way, we don't wait for you guys to leave the realms before we make a move.

Hehe, that was the same time hun...anyway done arguing this. Never did I say that it wasn't right to raid when there are not many to defend just that it's unpleasant for the little group that happen to be there at the time.

Say what you want, Athana. Ethelon has been present on Nil for more than one damn raid. I can scan. I can scry. I know.

I agree that defending when severely outnumbered is no fun. It's interesting how some younger members enjoy it as it gives them a chance to learn more about combat, despite being forced to pray, but they are the minority.

Everything else I can think of has already been said and I don't think repeating it will do any good. It might be time for another Lusternia break, I think!

Edit: It's not just you Athana, there have been more raids lately, not sure why. Just people enjoying the game the way that suits them, I guess.

Yes, yes he has...but I believe the time you were referring to was when all the people you listed were defending and then Ethelon decided to raid Celestia at the same time. I remember this because you, Thoros and Narsrim made nice little shouts about how he was there instead of walking into wisp traps with me.

Okay, -now- I'm really done.

I specifically said, at the beginning of this thread, that I am not talking about raiding instances where there is a large-scale battle, or a lot of competition. I enjoy those raids, and I think they're a lot of fun for everyone.

I also clearly stated that this post was not solely about any one group. Magnagora has done the same, as has Celest and Serenwilde. I'm not trying to point a finger of blame at you, Malicia, or anyone else. There's no need for any of you to get so defensive about it. What I'm asking for is a discussion on improving the sportsmanship so low-level and inexperienced players don't continually have to pray when there's nobody else around to defend.




Again, please read what I write before making responses like this. It's evident you have posted a response that has little to do with this topic, or with the statements I made. I stated that the issue here is not Raezon's shrines. Shrines and essence are transient commodities that are easily created, lost, destroyed, and replaced. Defile all you'd like, I would worldburn you again if you raided Nil when there's nobody around to defend except for lowbies and inexperienced players who stand no chance against a group like yours in that specific instance. I stand by my actions, you stand by yours, so I don't see the problem here.

Respond to the points I have made, rather than trying to skew it as some personal vendetta for defiling shrines. In fact, you will not find a single response anywhere where I have tried to state that there are not "consequences", as you have called it, for worldburning with shrines.

My point focuses around raids in which the only people who really suffer are the low levels. Please respond to that if you are going to make a reply, since I would like to see a discussion which for once doesn't devolve into finger pointing at the different orgs and a thinly-veiled flamewar.

This reminds me when I was a celestine novice and this happened, but Mag decided to raid a village at the same time. This stuff happens we hate for people to raid when there is really noone to protect the area but people decide to do it anyway. Well Malicia reasoning behind it is they had a cubix finally and since when Mag has a cubix they take the first chance they have to raid sometime I have no problem with Celest raiding back, just dont make it seem like they wait every day for everyone to leave and then raid cause i doubt that happens.

It is nearly impossible to convince others to stop their actions, thus it is a mistake to try. Rather, we should be asking for Citizens to conglut when they die on one of their planes. I do not know if that can be abused, and I do not know if it would make the Planar Conglut useless, though I doubt it would due to Astral. The only problem I can see is people hunting for essence without having to worry about praying. Other suggestions are, of course, welcome and preferred.

You tried to imply that Narsrim, Malicia, and gang only raid when the "big fighters" are gone. This is simply untrue. We raid at various times, which includes both time when Magnagora is or is not in full force. If this isn't what you intended to imply, fine; however, I'm setting the record straight.



I don't follow the rationale. Sportsmanship doesn't improve combat prowess. People who are great fighters were once those low-level and inexperienced players. Through hard work and trial-by-fire, they climbed up. While some do fall, the idea of attempt to comply to some unspoken, often bias standard does not help anyone. Remember, no one is forced to respond. If someone doesn't want to defend against bad odds, they don't have to.



I don't agree with your assessment of divine essence. I won't argue, but it is far from so easily gained. It is tenfold easier to lose. I'll leave it at that.




And finally as I have said, low leveled people only suffer when they opt to suffer. If there was a raid in Rockholm and no one was around - well too damn bad, I'll just get the dwarves back later. I don't expect nor does anyone people who have no chance to stand up and fall endlessly. At least in Serenwilde, we exercise common sense in hopeless situations. There may be people who still want try and I applaud their efforts, but if they die, they died because they decided it was worth it.