To Kaervas- (for clarification) I didn't say you were a bad rp-er. You're one of the key raiders against Celest and yes, there are complaints, but I'm not sure if anyone wants to go out of character to contact you and ask you to stop. In-game agreements and truces would make more sense. I don't think raiding is bad rp. We'll just retaliate, whenever we can. I complain about imbalancing crap. Not raids. Not dying. I die lots.

I wouldn't even say that you're a 'bad' player. I support violence in all forms in games. I think it's fun even though I've played on the losing side for a really long time. Crap has been tossed back and forth for the longest and Nokraenom's post was filled with accusations mainly. How can anyone blame one side for lack of good sportsmanship? That's what gets to me.

My premise was that if we were more sportsman like, then the game would be more fun. I defined good sportsmanship in my post. If you would please read it, then you would understand that we are drawing a distinction between our characters and our players. You are lumping them in one, hence why your arguments are redundant to most except yourself. I have not asked for better RP, I have asked for a friendlier atmosphere of players. Completely different idea, completely different point. Read my post, damnit.

I don't think anyone is trying to suggest that one side or group of people is to blame. I said all sides are guilty, and almost everyone else who's replied has also said the same thing. I did bring up the most recent instance in which it happened as an example of what I think is bad sportsmanship. I never said it was the only example or that it was limited to the people in that example - because it's not.

I'm just looking for ways people think we can help make the game, and thus the forums as well, less vitriolic and partisan. This is really the only game I've played where there seems to be the sense that the players hate or dislike one another, and a lot of people seem to pick up on that same vibe as well.

She deserves all of it for what she said to Malicia. I'd cut her tongue out if I could.

It just boils down to being a responsible player. You see that enemy on Astral that you've killed a couple of times up there already, you decide this time you'll just leave them alone. You've raided the cosmic plane every day for the past week? Well, how about you don't participate in it or suggest it today.

It's a completely OOC thing since IC we all want to see the opposition suffer as much as mortally possible - and immortally possible if we can arrange it!

The only way to have "good sportsmanship" on a wide-scale are ooc agreements which are doomed to failure since they can't be enforced ic.

So all you can really do is make sure you're not doing the things that you claim you hate in other people and don't let the fact that not everyone shares your high ideals get to you.

And the passion outside of the game is just a sign that people are really immersed and identify with their characters. Which is a good thing in terms of overall connection and attachment to the game. It's not going to go away.

Perhaps one way to limit it is when you want to talk about a broad topic and aren't meaning to point the finger at anyone, you do not name names and point out specific examples that other players are going to naturally take offense to and get defensive. The moment you say "So, the other day Jimmy and his friends ganked me. This is obviously an example of poor sportmanship and I'd like to discuss how we can improve the overall tone of the game" You're going to get Jimmy and his friends ticked off because you just called them unsportsmanlike gankers. Just a thought.

Back up that claim. List some names of people who were not involved that were slain.

Well said, Catarin.

Yes, and when you have a cubix usually coincides with the times nobody from mag is on... You can raid Earth without a Cubix. You can raid villages without a Cubix. Oh, and just because everyone shouts doesn't make it non-annoying. It's spammy, stupid, and meaningless. It's just massaging your own ego: "OOh, look at me, I raided Nil while nobody was online and pwned the only newbie that went defend, I'm so biiig and stroooong."


Aiakon, you said everything that needed to be said. Fun is the reason we play this game, and when you stop having fun or caring about wether other people are having fun, you're being unsporting and annoying. It's because of people who don't realize it's a game, and that in a game we need to have some consideration for the enjoyment of everyone playing, that we're losing so many players. It's the reason I don't fight; combat has been slowly degenerating into just a way of inflating your ego by picking on people who are smaller than you.



Just because both sides are doing it doesn't make it right. It's making people get fed up with the game, and it means our playerbase gets smaller, and that hurts everyone.



No, this is not something that can or should be resolved in-game. It's something that will be resolved by people realizing it's only a game, and that playing it in a way that causes frustration and anger will only leave you playing alone.



You keep missing the point. Raiding is fine, doing it when there's nobody to defend is pointless. That's the point Nokraenon and everyone is trying to make. And again, this can't be resolved IC. It's an OOC issue because what's wrong here is that people are getting frustrated, not that their characters are getting killed.



This is exactly the kind of thing Aiakon is talking about. Taking IC hatred OOC. HER CHARACTER said bad things to MALICIA, and maybe NARSRIM thinks THE CHARACTER should have her tongue cut off. OOCly, there shouldn't be any hostility except for friendly competition, the kind of thing you see at sporting events (Civilized sports, that is, not football.)

And Anisu, please, don't hijack this further. It's not about the shrines or Raezon, and Raezon's IC philosophy has nothing to do with the argument.

You're a real genius, Verithrax.




What do you know? I have stated time and time again that there have been raiders up there to defend. We do not purposely wait until all of Magnagora has left before we raid. We go up, we set up a demense and we try to clear out the demons to be purified and slay any who try to stop us. We make it really hard for them too. We're worldburned when we're up there, if we have a full demense. You lack any knowledge of the situation. You're rarely around and you've never raided in game. Verithrax, tell me...how would you know? This drivel of yours is similar to the things you whine about in game.

Secondly, Malicia enters Earth often (since it's easier to get to), clearing out Lords and I guarantee you, there's always someone around.

And..what are you talking about? Taking ic hatred ooc? Zalana likes to use words like 'cunt' or 'gimp' , which are pretty ooc if you ask me, towards my character and someone mentioned shouts that followed because of Zalana's mouth. You're clueless, Veri. I've had to issue her over it.

Oh and please, name some names? What smaller people do I 'pick' on? My suspect list has only FIGHTERS on it. I fight in the sea or on the outer Planes during raids mainly.


To enlighten the unenlightened, raiding villages is quite difficult with the limit on suspects. I'd rather not meet the avenger again, like I did for helping to move Mags out of the sea and taking out Ladantine.

Uh... No, Malicia, pay attention. I'm talking about sportsmanship, and in general terms. This isn't about YOU, Malicia, it's about a lot of people on all sides of the game. And second, it has nothing to do with my character. Verithrax thinks raiding is an obnoxious form of slaughter that only a sick mind would do. I think it's alright as long as you realize it's a game, and do it in a way tha doesn't frustrate people.


Good for you! Like I said, this isn't exclusively about you and I'm not saying you act like that all the time.


If it's an OOC insult that you had to issue over, then why did you reply to her IC? If you're going to issue and take it OOC, then you have no right to ICly insult her.

EDIT: Gimp just might be OOC, but then again, look at Nifilhema. And that other word definitely isn't OOC.

Stay with me, Veri. I know it's hard, but try to follow.

I did not shout anything to Zalana. I issued her. Narsrim shouted in my defense. Kthnx.

Then Narsrim was bringing IC into OOC, since he took what Zalana said ICly. If Zalana really thinks those things about you, then she's guilty of the same thing, but she does have the benefit of doubt for not posting that you should have bits of you cut off in a public forum.

My point was that those players were the minority and while there are a few who enjoy it (actually, at the moment, I can only think of one) most people don't enjoy dying and praying when they have absolutely no chance of winning the fight.

Catarin mentioned that "IC we all want to see the opposition suffer as much as mortally possible" which I know isn't true. I've been frustrated and annoyed plenty of times but I've never wanted that, even IC. Ah well.

Things would improve immensely if people were just civil, but I guess that's asking too much.

Then, as Catarin pointed out, we'd have to see it on all sides. You can't screw over someone and expect them not to hit back. Then, as it goes in Lusternia, when one side retaliates, the other side re-retaliates and you have an endless cycle and everyone plays the victim.

God, you always involve yourself when you don't know what was said. I'd beat the living out of someone if they said to Malicia (IC or OOC) what Zalana did to her. If someone calls me a faggot IC, it is considered OOC harassment. This is damn near close to it - and constant.

EDIT:

And the only reason I brought this up was because someone tried to make it sound like Zalana was a victim earlier in this thread. Unless she is being forced to raid Celestia, Water, and jump people, she has been digging her own grave. When she dies, she, however, must impart some vile comments before moving on. Once again, just setting the record straight.

EDIT: Watch your language. ~Shiri~

So were those shouts.

If what was said was shouted, people wouldn't be using shouts let alone ct/gt/say/etc for some time. I realize this is being driven into the ground at this point, I just wanted to clarify earlier and it was brought question. There is a line. It was crossed on multiple occassions.