Based on the other threads and comments about, I would like to propose that Demesnes be changed to act more like vibes kinda. I see them as The room the Magi/Druid is in and all adjacent rooms, which is their influence. This would fix the problem of demesne wars and unbreakable demesne. If two opposing Magi/Druid enter eachothers influence/demesne, both effects overlap, so they fight on equal terms, both them and their groups. So for example, I have all my effects up, when I move about, my demesne effects are active no matter where I move. If I run into a Druid, both my effects and their effects will remain active so that the fight to insue is a fair one and not based around who can destroy/meld the others demesne.

A magi/druid would still be strongly needed in combat for the passive effects, and there would be none of this setting up unbreakable demesne full of wisp/summon traps getting people killed on both sides. As for the terrain type, such as Forest/Tainted/Water, they would overlap aswell, so when a Druid walks into, or their influence comes into effect I would see in the room something like "Vines and brush sprout up about you as slender trees push up through the earth", this allowing the Druid to have their trees and effects to stay active and the same for all other magi/druid. Of course when the druid/magi leave the area or their influence drops, the trees/taint and such would go aswell, "Slender trees quake as they are enveloped in the surrounding earth".

In my opinion, this would make being a Magi/Druid much more fun as we would be more apt to get into fights(more mobile), yet not so overpowered where we can sit on a plane with a protected demesne and slaughter everyone who even trys to enter.

Any other Ideas concerning this or thoughts?

The idea of stacking vibes-ish skills is absurd. Anyone who has experience with vibes will understand.

Please explain Narsrim, for those of us who don't understand your view. Just to be clear, only other Magi/Druid skills will overlap...so two Geomancer's won't both have effects going in same room.

Erm being hit by both the effects of geo and blacktalon, no thanks that is just insane.

edit: idea of vibes is nice though.

Imagine if you will fighting against hartstone/aquamancer (teamed together) with reality/ancestral curse/stag totem in one room. If we consider vibe level strength, you would passively be raped over-and-over.

The raw afflicting power of vibes and the damage far exceeds what demesnes do.

Ok, I see what you mean, how about then the persons effects who are active is based on skill level. So say the person who has trans in the skill will have theirs active over that of someone of lesser skill, to show that they are superior. In the case of two-equally strengthed magi/druid, it could be based on who was in the room first. Another option would be that between druid/magi it would be based on who was first, yet opposing druids or opposing magi will still have their's active. I don't ever see a Geo and Aqua or BT and Hart teaming.

Basically, this would require re-creating 4 skillsets from scratch. I also think it is worth adding that's pretty unlikely.

Lesser skill would just mean non trans can't really participate in combat in influencing and stuff, because there will aways be a trans mage/druid.

And what abuot 4 way war. In village influencing it could happen all four factions are in a room all killing eachoter, then you would still have the mage/mage stack or the druid/druid stack. How is stacking of vibes handled in it' s natural habitat?

Why would it require that Narsrim? Al lthat would change is the druid/magi wouldn't have to meld the rooms, but just have a skill that activates their vibe like aure/influence. All the rest of the skills aside from summon would still be the same and usable.

Ok, so stacking would be bad and even though there have been times when there is no trans magi/druids, I see your point. Maybe have it just based upon who was in the room first, or maybe have the natural environment effect it. Or have the natural environment increase the effects, so a Geo on Nil/Earth will have a stronger demesne.

Hmm, I think this would make mages/druids pretty crappy. I assumed there would be tweaks to make up for something this drastic.

at the very least they should then be getting things similar to numen, honour, even surge. Because you would make from a group, ranged fighter a on location fighter who will surely get hit more then the mage is now.

And yeah probably to much an overhaul to do

meh, was just an idea.

I think any idea with the words "vibes," "groves," or "this is how it's like in Achaea" is a bad idea.

I still like the idea of those elemental forms I suggested in a thread aaaaaages ago. My thread

How about, instead of shrinking demesnes into areas the size of a Manhattan front yard, we just get ideas from the community for what you think would make nice replacement skills for mages and wiccans if we remove wisp and demesne summon altogether?

I poked around my guild for feedback on the 20-room idea, and they all basically said that 1) if we're upgrading demesnes to do this, it's going to make it much more unpleasant for others (and I tend to agree here--druid effects on a six-second timer means unbreakable sap if I actively entangle) and 2) lower commune security, which is already a huge joke.

Less powerful, longer-reaching demesnes are the way to go, really. The biggest issue with the demesne in group combat are those nasty summon/wisp traps. Otherwise, sure, they're a hindrance and a significant advantage, but they're not game breakers.

Reading through my old thread just gave me an idea, keep demesnes, remove summon, weaken them somehow and make elemental/nature? forms a part of the skillset. That way demesnes are still somewhat useful, but they won't be such a crucial part of mage/druid combat/fighting in general and we'll also get ways to fight decently outside demesnes without feeling sort of crippled.

Reducing demesnes to 20 rooms will be nice, but it won't stop them from being crucial for cosmic raids (one demesne can cover 80% of a Celestia/Nil).

And increasing the speed is definately NOT a good idea.

Demenses are indeed game breakers, basically everything relys on who has the demesne. Summons and wisp are just some pretty icing on an already excellent cake. I don't think reducing the room size and for some reason upgrading the speed is the answer at all - it will just create a smaller demesne war that is even more brutal. Like many have said before it needs to change to something else. Personally I don't have any ideas, I don't want a combination of groves/vibes, but a transformation into an elemental would be cool. A whole skillset varied on it would be very interesting and not rip off metamorphsis.

I do like the idea of elementals, although I can't really remember details and I dont really want to go back and look at the old thread, because I'm sneakily on forums at work *cough*. The portable demesne that was suggested would be interesting if a good way to have conflicting demesnes in the same spot was made, and mages got a little boost in tankiness. Maybe in conflicting demesnes, every tick there would be a chance that one of the ones would fire, and not the others. So if I were fighting a geo, I'd either be hit with their demesne, or they'd be hit with mine every round. I know that demesnes are on different timers. Maybe they could be averaged or something.