Unknown2006-02-06 05:50:24
QUOTE(PercivalEdmundChang @ Feb 6 2006, 05:08 AM) 254657
Simply more proof that Richard the Lionheart should not have yielded to Saladin in the third crusade.
I thought it was the second, and the third was when they sacked Constantinopolis and turned back home.
Aiakon2006-02-06 11:34:20
QUOTE(Shikari @ Feb 6 2006, 02:15 AM) 254602
I think you are missing my point. I'm not saying 'Christians' have done no wrong, as that is massively far from the truth - large amounts of blame for the problems in the Middle Eastern area today can be traced to the actions of 'Christian' states. What I am saying that it is truly a matter of concern that we see outrage over a cartoon, and not over, say, the slaughter of 186 children in Beslan, or 209 tourists in Bali.
I wasn't specifically disagreeing with you, Shikari, but rather the tone of the entire thread. The Muslim problem is a problem, but rather than inciting our own happy racial hatred thread, I'd prefer us to look at it as a facet of a greater human problem, rather than as something fundamentally wrong with a certain sector of the human race.
And yes. I agree. I get extremely irritated by the politically correct bias of the papers in the UK, and Mr Blair's happy abandonment of the English right to free speech. The Muslim lobby in England has vastly disproportional power... and unfortunately part of the reason for it is because the only people who object are the far-right extremists (the BNP and the like) and their actions and behaviour are atrocious. It becomes impossible to find a middle way because any political movement in their direction is identified immediately with them, and then one loses all credibility.
Unknown2006-02-06 11:55:00
Wow, I just saw this on the news... I can't believe it. Over a cartoon for heaven's sake.
I truly wonder what role the media in some countries is playing. How did one little faux pa make its way to all these fundamentalist psychos and inflame them to violence? Surely it couldn't have been reported in a reasonable manner to have caused this sort of wide-spread insanity.
I do understand that the political climate we live in these days is very divisive and the West is particularly hostile to Islamic nations, and perhaps this is just the 'final straw' excuse that the radical idiots were waiting for, but have things really become so bad? Are regular Islamists in these countries feeling so oppressed and victimized that a freaking cartoon is justification enough to strike back and blow up a building? I swear, the end of the world is just around the corner.
I'm tired of this cold war that America calls 'terrorism'. I wish the various parties would just come clean and have it out properly, so we can move on. Rather than this insidious fear campaign that only breeds extremism and prejudice.
Edit: I must say, while I personally find the knowing disrespect of this very sensitive faith quite tasteless, I really don't think its fair to blame the cartoonist for encouraging all this. Its somewhat akin to the rape victim who is accused of dressing too immodestly.
I truly wonder what role the media in some countries is playing. How did one little faux pa make its way to all these fundamentalist psychos and inflame them to violence? Surely it couldn't have been reported in a reasonable manner to have caused this sort of wide-spread insanity.
I do understand that the political climate we live in these days is very divisive and the West is particularly hostile to Islamic nations, and perhaps this is just the 'final straw' excuse that the radical idiots were waiting for, but have things really become so bad? Are regular Islamists in these countries feeling so oppressed and victimized that a freaking cartoon is justification enough to strike back and blow up a building? I swear, the end of the world is just around the corner.
I'm tired of this cold war that America calls 'terrorism'. I wish the various parties would just come clean and have it out properly, so we can move on. Rather than this insidious fear campaign that only breeds extremism and prejudice.
Edit: I must say, while I personally find the knowing disrespect of this very sensitive faith quite tasteless, I really don't think its fair to blame the cartoonist for encouraging all this. Its somewhat akin to the rape victim who is accused of dressing too immodestly.
Unknown2006-02-06 13:00:32
I wonder how much this is about muslims being offended by a cartoon, and how much it is about a bunch of idiots taking the opportunity to wreak havoc.
Unknown2006-02-06 15:55:11
Manjanaia2006-02-06 16:23:56
I sincerely hope that if Denmark is threatened, then the Western World speaks out in it's defence. We cannot turn a blind eye to this sheer Radical arrogance just because we might offend Islam... however it shows truly that the world is in a sorry state of affairs if this is the escalation of conflict caused by a cartoon.
Unknown2006-02-06 16:41:25
The world is just fine. The only parties that are in a mess with respect to this whole issue are several impoverished and highly unstable Middle Eastern countries and the EU. The ME countries have 
for governments, that can't keep a crowd away from a foreign embassy, and are ruled by radical fundamentalists who are so busy running the mob that they don't even have time to read the Quran. The EU has a huge knot of concealed psychological complexes, the main of which being some strange idea of superiority in certain areas (no idea where they got that idea from really), and a huge muslim population on top of it.
All the rest of us are just fine, thank you. We happily gun down those trying to set foreign embassies on fire, and strictly prohibit any religiously or nationalistically sensitive material from appearing in our media. Much like we deal with child pornography. Some of us even have laws mandating that those religions that have over a certain number of active followers must receive free time on national TV during their respective holidays.
for governments, that can't keep a crowd away from a foreign embassy, and are ruled by radical fundamentalists who are so busy running the mob that they don't even have time to read the Quran. The EU has a huge knot of concealed psychological complexes, the main of which being some strange idea of superiority in certain areas (no idea where they got that idea from really), and a huge muslim population on top of it.All the rest of us are just fine, thank you. We happily gun down those trying to set foreign embassies on fire, and strictly prohibit any religiously or nationalistically sensitive material from appearing in our media. Much like we deal with child pornography. Some of us even have laws mandating that those religions that have over a certain number of active followers must receive free time on national TV during their respective holidays.
ferlas2006-02-06 18:56:23
QUOTE(Shikari @ Feb 6 2006, 02:15 AM) 254602
The IRA was supported (unofficially) by America and that of the Vatican (a nation-state in its own right). In fact, when the NYPD were collecting funds to help bereaved families who had lost parents or children, numerous members of the RUC (Royal Ulster Constabulary) refused outright, as the NYPD had sent its police band to play at the funerals of several noted terrorists during the Troubles in that country.
True but that was mostly because of missinformation on the americans side, they were mislead into fuding criminals and killers, the old sob story "We're freedom fighters and we dont really hurt people," Your president Clinton did try to fix this though pointing out that funding the IRA is wrong to put it lightly.
QUOTE(Kashim)
Actually, didn't IRA announce that they won't fight using terrorist actions and violence anymore?
I vaguely recall something like that but I could be completely off.
I vaguely recall something like that but I could be completely off.
Yea they also said they would have handed in their weapons like twenty times and yet they still have guns, and they also seem to be still killing people, their more like a mafia than a terrorist organisation really its good the american funding has kind of been reduced though.
Ah cant we all just get along
Its amazing how petty grown men can be over things like pictures and cartoons, not just talking about muslims either.
Aiakon2006-02-06 19:56:04
QUOTE(ferlas @ Feb 6 2006, 06:56 PM) 254867
True but that was mostly because of missinformation on the americans side, they were mislead into fuding criminals and killers, the old sob story "We're freedom fighters and we dont really hurt people,"
I find it hard to believe that any of the Irish-Americans who donated the millions of dollars that kept the IRA afloat for so long were ignorant of what would happen to the money. In fact, I would suggest that they knew damn well where it was going, and that the old (in many ways justifiable*) Irish racial hatreds were simply brought across with the Irish emmigrants. In the wake of the American clampdowns on donations to the IRA, its terrorist activities have been greatly curtailed.
* I'm not saying that Terrorism or violence is justifiable. I am saying that the Irish are well within their rights to have a grudge.
Daganev2006-02-07 03:44:36
Avaer, I'm not quite sure what "Cold war" you are talking about.
America recently just killed 4 top Terrorists with a predator drone. Israel has recently killed or captured about 16 top terrorists, and there is currently a manhunt for the 14 terrorists who just escaped jail in Yemen.
I said it at the begining of the thread, and I'll say it again. If you want to fight back against such terrorism write to your Legislators and Media and DEMAND that they republish those cartoons in protest of the violece from idiots.
I'd write to my congressmen and media papers, but they are allready doing just that.
The only way to stand up for your freedom of speach is by continuing to talk loudly.
Edit: I was wrong, my local papers are not printing the cartoons. I've just written several emails to those papers and others and I suggest others do the same. I'm going to post an email I got from the local Israeli Political action group I never read. Normally, I think politics is just silly, and protests and letters don't mean much, however in this case, letters and complaints is exactly what we need to do to fight against such violent actions.
America recently just killed 4 top Terrorists with a predator drone. Israel has recently killed or captured about 16 top terrorists, and there is currently a manhunt for the 14 terrorists who just escaped jail in Yemen.
I said it at the begining of the thread, and I'll say it again. If you want to fight back against such terrorism write to your Legislators and Media and DEMAND that they republish those cartoons in protest of the violece from idiots.
I'd write to my congressmen and media papers, but they are allready doing just that.
The only way to stand up for your freedom of speach is by continuing to talk loudly.
Edit: I was wrong, my local papers are not printing the cartoons. I've just written several emails to those papers and others and I suggest others do the same. I'm going to post an email I got from the local Israeli Political action group I never read. Normally, I think politics is just silly, and protests and letters don't mean much, however in this case, letters and complaints is exactly what we need to do to fight against such violent actions.
Daganev2006-02-07 05:21:09
By Roberta Seid, PhD and Roz Rothstein
Westerners are agonizing about whether the twelve Danish cartoons of Mohammed showed unforgivable prejudice against Islam. Enraged Muslims in Europe, the Middle East and Asia are rampaging in protest against the cartoons, demanding apologies, boycotts, blood and even beheadings. But in all this, the real outrage is overlooked: the sheer hypocrisy of these reactions.
These angry Muslims demand that the world honor Islamic symbols and sensitivities, but adamantly refuse to grant the same to other religions. They don’t just draw satirical cartoons or limit their insults to words and discriminatory laws. They have intentionally and regularly desecrated and destroyed religious icons, holy sites and houses of worship sacred to other faiths. Yet the world, including progressive democracies whose core ideal is tolerance, has remained silent about these assaults on other religions.
Why was there no effective protest when the Taliban destroyed pre-Islamic masterpieces, including the almost 2000-year-old 165-foot statue of Buddha? Where was the outrage when Muslims destroyed churches in Indonesia, Pakistan, India, Thailand, Iraq and Sudan, and 175 Nigerian churches in 2004? Where was the indignation when armed Palestinian Muslim terrorists forced their way into the Church of the Nativity in 2002 for 38 days and shot bullet holes in the walls and used the pages of Christian holy books as toilet paper? Why was there no outcry when Palestinian Muslims repeatedly attacked Jewish holy sites, such as Rachel’s Tomb, or when they destroyed Joseph’s Tomb, burned its prayer books, Bibles and religious articles and converted the age- old Jewish holy site into a mosque? Why was the world silent between 1948 and 1967 when Jordanian Muslims destroyed all 57 of Jerusalem’s ancient Jewish temples, libraries and yeshivas and used the sacred stones for urinals and sidewalks?
The world has been strangely silent, too, when Muslims have gone beyond attacking holy symbols and have persecuted and murdered men, women and children for the crime of not being Muslim. The Laskar Jihad movement of Indonesia has killed 5,000 Christians and made a half-million of them homeless. In Egypt, Copts are persecuted and dozens in el- Kusheh were killed in January 2000 alone. Muslim youth rampaged in Nigeria in 2002 and killed 100 Christians and injured 200 others.
How can Muslims demand that their sensibilities be respected when they assault other religions and don’t even begin soul-searching to rethink their own intolerance and religious prejudices? Why aren’t Western democracies consistently denouncing this violent behavior? Is it because they have double standards and believe Islam must be treated differently than Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism and other religions? Is it because they have become so secular that they see no reason to defend or protect the historic religions of the West? Or is it because they are intimidated by the threats of violence against them if they speak out? Do they fear they will share the fate of the brutally murdered Theodore Van Gogh or the fate of Salman Rushdie who was forced into hiding after a fatwa was issued that condemned his novel and called for his execution.
But something far more profound and ominous has been exposed by the cartoon incident. The radical Muslim message is clear: We can insult your religions. We can desecrate and destroy your holy places and kill your co-religionists, but you cannot do something as trivial as publishing satirical drawings of our sacred symbols. Only our religion should be honored and respected. The world must defer to our rules and sensitivities. If you violate them, we will erupt in riots and violence and call for your deaths.
In short, the incident has laid bare radical Islam’s impassioned battle to dominate the West and impose Islamist values and a radical Islamist world order. They are trying to get us to respect Islam according to their rules not through persuasion but through intimidation and violence. Those who do not obey will be subject to a savagery and rage that radical Muslims will unapologetically justify in the name of Allah and Mohammed. Anti-Western governments like Iran and Syria and radical Islamists will cynically fan the flames.
We are face-to-face not just with hypocrisy, but also with radical Islamists' stark bid for religious dominance. Let us hope that democracies and moderate Muslims have the clarity, self-confidence and strength to win this battle of the 21st century.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/002/36.82. html and http://www.asianews.it/view.php? l=en&art=4609
“’Greedy Monsters’ Ruled Church,†<> Times, May 15 2002, p. 1
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/10429.htm
Roberta Seid, PhD is a historian.
Roz Rothsein is the National Director for StandWithUs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
email: info@standwithus.com
phone: 310-836-6140
web: http://www.standwithus.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Westerners are agonizing about whether the twelve Danish cartoons of Mohammed showed unforgivable prejudice against Islam. Enraged Muslims in Europe, the Middle East and Asia are rampaging in protest against the cartoons, demanding apologies, boycotts, blood and even beheadings. But in all this, the real outrage is overlooked: the sheer hypocrisy of these reactions.
These angry Muslims demand that the world honor Islamic symbols and sensitivities, but adamantly refuse to grant the same to other religions. They don’t just draw satirical cartoons or limit their insults to words and discriminatory laws. They have intentionally and regularly desecrated and destroyed religious icons, holy sites and houses of worship sacred to other faiths. Yet the world, including progressive democracies whose core ideal is tolerance, has remained silent about these assaults on other religions.
Why was there no effective protest when the Taliban destroyed pre-Islamic masterpieces, including the almost 2000-year-old 165-foot statue of Buddha? Where was the outrage when Muslims destroyed churches in Indonesia, Pakistan, India, Thailand, Iraq and Sudan, and 175 Nigerian churches in 2004? Where was the indignation when armed Palestinian Muslim terrorists forced their way into the Church of the Nativity in 2002 for 38 days and shot bullet holes in the walls and used the pages of Christian holy books as toilet paper? Why was there no outcry when Palestinian Muslims repeatedly attacked Jewish holy sites, such as Rachel’s Tomb, or when they destroyed Joseph’s Tomb, burned its prayer books, Bibles and religious articles and converted the age- old Jewish holy site into a mosque? Why was the world silent between 1948 and 1967 when Jordanian Muslims destroyed all 57 of Jerusalem’s ancient Jewish temples, libraries and yeshivas and used the sacred stones for urinals and sidewalks?
The world has been strangely silent, too, when Muslims have gone beyond attacking holy symbols and have persecuted and murdered men, women and children for the crime of not being Muslim. The Laskar Jihad movement of Indonesia has killed 5,000 Christians and made a half-million of them homeless. In Egypt, Copts are persecuted and dozens in el- Kusheh were killed in January 2000 alone. Muslim youth rampaged in Nigeria in 2002 and killed 100 Christians and injured 200 others.
How can Muslims demand that their sensibilities be respected when they assault other religions and don’t even begin soul-searching to rethink their own intolerance and religious prejudices? Why aren’t Western democracies consistently denouncing this violent behavior? Is it because they have double standards and believe Islam must be treated differently than Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism and other religions? Is it because they have become so secular that they see no reason to defend or protect the historic religions of the West? Or is it because they are intimidated by the threats of violence against them if they speak out? Do they fear they will share the fate of the brutally murdered Theodore Van Gogh or the fate of Salman Rushdie who was forced into hiding after a fatwa was issued that condemned his novel and called for his execution.
But something far more profound and ominous has been exposed by the cartoon incident. The radical Muslim message is clear: We can insult your religions. We can desecrate and destroy your holy places and kill your co-religionists, but you cannot do something as trivial as publishing satirical drawings of our sacred symbols. Only our religion should be honored and respected. The world must defer to our rules and sensitivities. If you violate them, we will erupt in riots and violence and call for your deaths.
In short, the incident has laid bare radical Islam’s impassioned battle to dominate the West and impose Islamist values and a radical Islamist world order. They are trying to get us to respect Islam according to their rules not through persuasion but through intimidation and violence. Those who do not obey will be subject to a savagery and rage that radical Muslims will unapologetically justify in the name of Allah and Mohammed. Anti-Western governments like Iran and Syria and radical Islamists will cynically fan the flames.
We are face-to-face not just with hypocrisy, but also with radical Islamists' stark bid for religious dominance. Let us hope that democracies and moderate Muslims have the clarity, self-confidence and strength to win this battle of the 21st century.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/002/36.82. html and http://www.asianews.it/view.php? l=en&art=4609
“’Greedy Monsters’ Ruled Church,†<> Times, May 15 2002, p. 1
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/10429.htm
Roberta Seid, PhD is a historian.
Roz Rothsein is the National Director for StandWithUs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
email: info@standwithus.com
phone: 310-836-6140
web: http://www.standwithus.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unknown2006-02-07 05:28:22
Makes me think of what happened in France. While all this is going on, I'm looking for Zion before the nukes start flying.
ya'll, I'm outta' here!
::Ascends on a beam of Light to go hang out with baby Jesus::
edit: ~~Language, Daganev
ya'll, I'm outta' here!::Ascends on a beam of Light to go hang out with baby Jesus::
edit: ~~Language, Daganev
Iridiel2006-02-07 10:03:13
I still wonder at the choice of sources Daganev uses. A pro-israeli obviously anti-islamist site, talking about islamist conflict., Islamist plans of conquering the world, etc...
Narsrim2006-02-07 10:07:12
QUOTE(Iridiel @ Feb 7 2006, 05:03 AM) 255147
I still wonder at the choice of sources Daganev uses. A pro-israeli obviously anti-islamist site, talking about islamist conflict., Islamist plans of conquering the world, etc...
However, there is no debating the truth in the article. I'd love for someone to argue any of those points.
Aiakon2006-02-07 10:20:04
QUOTE(Narsrim @ Feb 7 2006, 10:07 AM) 255148
However, there is no debating the truth in the article. I'd love for someone to argue any of those points.
No. There's no debating the truth, but there's room for debate on the angle.
Iridiel2006-02-07 10:28:03
The problem of said article is that uses "integrist muslims in severely depressed areas with uncultured people they can influence as they want" as a representation of the interests and purposes of the entire arab world. From my experience, my muslim neighbours aren't exactly going to riot and demand heads and stuff like that (in fact, they're sad about this and worried about family members getting hurt in riots fighting). Then deduces that the muslim world is there to get us, innocent us. The facts exposed are right, the conclusions are biased.
What I found we're forgetting is that, as always, if you plant seeds of poverty, hate, militaristic ocupation, support to ultra muslim groups to get into governments of non-ultra countries so russia didn't get oil, indiscriminate killings, etc... you will get a lot of problems when a spark ignites it.
Happened a while ago in france. Happened in London. Happened in Afganistan. Now you're adding disrespect for sacred symbols to all of this, so it has happened again. The situation was bad enough, now it's worse. Does that mean they're there to conquer us, or that we've created a wonderful ground for the few integrists (wich aren't a majority) to gather adepts and cause undiscriminate reactions and riots. To how many african arab groups has occident sold weapons, now used for religious extermination?
The attitudes of savagery and violence are the same used by other ultra-religious groups of all persuasions (anti-abortists groups burning clinics with people inside, for a clear example, wich aren't no longer in TV because well, it's just a bunch of crazy people) but the problem is that said groups aren't able to grab a hold because their target "followers" are comfortable and living well enough to laugh at them. I refuse to blame it all on radical islamism, and would start blaming radical religionism, whatever the religion. And presidents who start a war against the muslim world because God told them.
I am not justifiying such an extreme reaction but sadly I understand where it comes from, and I think it isn't just due to some cartoons.
What I found we're forgetting is that, as always, if you plant seeds of poverty, hate, militaristic ocupation, support to ultra muslim groups to get into governments of non-ultra countries so russia didn't get oil, indiscriminate killings, etc... you will get a lot of problems when a spark ignites it.
Happened a while ago in france. Happened in London. Happened in Afganistan. Now you're adding disrespect for sacred symbols to all of this, so it has happened again. The situation was bad enough, now it's worse. Does that mean they're there to conquer us, or that we've created a wonderful ground for the few integrists (wich aren't a majority) to gather adepts and cause undiscriminate reactions and riots. To how many african arab groups has occident sold weapons, now used for religious extermination?
The attitudes of savagery and violence are the same used by other ultra-religious groups of all persuasions (anti-abortists groups burning clinics with people inside, for a clear example, wich aren't no longer in TV because well, it's just a bunch of crazy people) but the problem is that said groups aren't able to grab a hold because their target "followers" are comfortable and living well enough to laugh at them. I refuse to blame it all on radical islamism, and would start blaming radical religionism, whatever the religion. And presidents who start a war against the muslim world because God told them.
I am not justifiying such an extreme reaction but sadly I understand where it comes from, and I think it isn't just due to some cartoons.
Roark2006-02-07 12:47:35
After reading this article, evaluate your emotional reaction to it, be it positive or negative, and how willing you are to accept or reject its points. Then read this article I heard discussed on the radio over the weekend, and reflect again on your reaction. It is fascinating and humbling to evaluate one's self in the light of that scientific study.
Unknown2006-02-07 14:03:27
QUOTE(Iridiel @ Feb 7 2006, 10:28 AM) 255152
The problem of said article is that uses "integrist muslims in severely depressed areas with uncultured people they can influence as they want" as a representation of the interests and purposes of the entire arab world. From my experience, my muslim neighbours aren't exactly going to riot and demand heads and stuff like that (in fact, they're sad about this and worried about family members getting hurt in riots fighting). Then deduces that the muslim world is there to get us, innocent us. The facts exposed are right, the conclusions are biased.
What I found we're forgetting is that, as always, if you plant seeds of poverty, hate, militaristic ocupation, support to ultra muslim groups to get into governments of non-ultra countries so russia didn't get oil, indiscriminate killings, etc... you will get a lot of problems when a spark ignites it.
Happened a while ago in france. Happened in London. Happened in Afganistan. Now you're adding disrespect for sacred symbols to all of this, so it has happened again. The situation was bad enough, now it's worse. Does that mean they're there to conquer us, or that we've created a wonderful ground for the few integrists (wich aren't a majority) to gather adepts and cause undiscriminate reactions and riots. To how many african arab groups has occident sold weapons, now used for religious extermination?
The attitudes of savagery and violence are the same used by other ultra-religious groups of all persuasions (anti-abortists groups burning clinics with people inside, for a clear example, wich aren't no longer in TV because well, it's just a bunch of crazy people) but the problem is that said groups aren't able to grab a hold because their target "followers" are comfortable and living well enough to laugh at them. I refuse to blame it all on radical islamism, and would start blaming radical religionism, whatever the religion. And presidents who start a war against the muslim world because God told them.
I am not justifiying such an extreme reaction but sadly I understand where it comes from, and I think it isn't just due to some cartoons.
The only problem is, that ther is no major world governments saying blowing up clinics is alright. There are plenty of Islamic Governments doing just that with these riots. I really do feel sorry for the average muslims like my friends and your neughbours, but to turn and say its only extremists, when those extremists are represented by elected governments that support their actions is just to ignore the facts. It would be akin to George Bush saying in a statement that yes its fines to go blow up abortion clinics. He may feel that way, with his stance on abortion, but he doesnt advocate or support extremist activities of his beliefs. Lots of Islamic countries do.
My problem is not with any individual muslims its with Extremist Groups (Like the Malaysian Islamic Jihad) and the Extremist Governments (Like Iran) that treat those extremists activities accpetable and even encourage them.
Daganev2006-02-07 20:12:12
QUOTE(Iridiel @ Feb 7 2006, 02:03 AM) 255147
I still wonder at the choice of sources Daganev uses. A pro-israeli obviously anti-islamist site, talking about islamist conflict., Islamist plans of conquering the world, etc...
Please excuse my complete anger while posting this..
PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE THERE IS ANY HINT OF BEING "obviously ant-islamist"!!!!???
Just because someone is in favour of supporint the right for thier own existance, does not mean that they are "Anti-Muslim" What gives you such ideas?
Do I need to quote to you the lines of the Iranian presidant who said "We will not stop untill Israel is wiped off the map" Or the lines of Hamas (The elected leaders of palastine) who clearly and often site the RIGHT for Muslims to rule the world?
Do you require the statistics that show the supression of culture within Iran?
Do I need to remind people that there are THREE ISRAELI PARLIMENT members who OFTEN go to Syria and say in public that they wish Israel was destroyed!??? THESE ARE MUSLIM MEMBERS OF THE ISRAEL GOVERNMENT!!!!
What world do you live in!?!????
How blind do you have to be to see a MULTIPLE nations who publish Anti-semetic (NOT ANTI-ISRAEL) cartoons on a weakly basis, and then say "Its ALL religions"!!?????
Sure there are members of the Israeli society who do violent activities, and there are people in all relgions who go nuts, as there are people in ALL societies, who go nuts. However, NOT ALL GOVERNMENTS are trying to start WWIII over a CARTOON!!!!! Only the Islamic ones are.
Don't Say All, when you mean Christain and Muslim. How many Budhist countries do you see declaring the world obey thier rules? Since when do NON-Muslims have to obey the Laws of Islam? And since when did Free Nations, not care about freedom of expression?
You may not be able to affect the outcomes of elections where you live, or even in places other people live, but YOU CAN affect how people view Free Speach, and you CAN stand up for your rights to say whatever you please.
Again, Show me the "anti-islam"... I can point to plenty of "anti-Islamic-Totalitarian-non-democracy Countries" But I can not see any "anti islam" Is the Article suggesting that you go kill every Islam you see in a western country? Is the Article suggesting that all muslims all over the world must die for thier beliefs? NO, The article says that the WESTERN REACTION is Hypocritical, and we need to look at what we believe in (If anything)
Unknown2006-02-07 22:30:16
CODE
Ok, Ignore my Previous post.
Iridiel, if you understand whats going on so much, and this has nothing to do with Islamic culture, then please explain to me why Egypt just had a HUGE riot and destroyed the building of the Ferry company that lost a ship that caused 1,000 people to die.
I don't seem to remember Europe or America destroying the buildings that belong to the company that sailed the Titanic.
Iridiel, if you understand whats going on so much, and this has nothing to do with Islamic culture, then please explain to me why Egypt just had a HUGE riot and destroyed the building of the Ferry company that lost a ship that caused 1,000 people to die.
I don't seem to remember Europe or America destroying the buildings that belong to the company that sailed the Titanic.
Things like that happen all over the world regularly. And there was plenty of it in both Europe and America. It has nothing whatsoever to do with culture, and everything to do with how effective the official institutions are in dealing with problems, and how strong the government is. Middle East is not the most stable of regions, and in the specific case of Egypt things like that are nothing new. I think the last outbreak was during their presidential elections, which were not only supposedly forged, but also happened for the first time and left a large crowd feeling both very unhappy and very bold.
What you seem to be implying is that Egyptians are somehow inferior, and it is their inferiority that is making them destroy buildings. That's untrue, and any nation, given the right set of circumstances, will do the same things.
