I may be alone on this, but I've been thinking over the past week, doing what I could to track down the pre -precision/speed/damage cap weapons, and I've somewhat come to the conclusion that the nerf pretty much nullified the warrior class from now on as a whole.

For a lot of us oldie warriors, we've had the time to develop our skills, spend literally hundreds of hours forging quality weapons and armour, some of us thousands of credits to outfit said weapons in order to have some killer offensive potential. In the past people used to complain that warriors did too much damage, or that our weapons were too good and it was unfair one class would dominate so hard in the combat area. Because aye, warriors -are- the most tanky class in most situations, as well as do have a quality offence. Though while under the best of circumstances, to the lower armoured classes out there, I can do roughly 2200 wounding. This is with 19-20 str, double lunges, and a champ helm, which of it's own right is an incredible boost, roughly 30%. People also complained that warriors were imbalanced in that people had to decide whether to sip health for damage or apply health for wounds.

Looking at post-cap precision and damage weapons, it makes me mourn for those warriors that are up and coming and those that have yet to find their way to lusternia.
Apart from pureblades using greatswords, which allow them to get burst beheads, wounding warriors coming from post cap are pretty much nullified against lusternia's better combatants. Im not 100% sure, but it seems to be a precision of roughly 190 on rapiers, maybe even as high as 200. With speed capped now as well, it is essentially impossible for any warrior with post nerf weapons without a champ helm to kill effectively. The average warrior with precision below two at BEST can pull about 400-500 wounding per strike, pushing up to around 650 or so on a lunge. This runs at about 800-1300 wounding per combo on average it seems.
Im not quite sure if applying is a static number, but each health application seems to heal roughly 800 wounding. When looking at the wounding rate of a knight over time, you start to see a major decline in offence without these pre-cap weapons. While average sip balance seems to be around 4.5s or so, the average warrior can attack from anywhere between 2.5-4.5 seconds per arm balance. So you might argue that warriors should be able to out wound sip/apply balance, where's the problem? The problem comes in that on average, I miss about 17% of the time, purely on my own volition. This right here cuts my offensive potential by about 1/10th (because missed attacks regain balance twice as fast) Bring in rebounding, which when used effectively can force a raise roughly every 6 seconds, that gives me about 4-5 attacks every 3 rounds that can actually get through. Then you have your parry, which when something is parried 100% seems to give a 75-80% chance to block the attack, although Im going off somewhat sketchy numbers in this assumption based off my own testing. Add on stancing, and you further decrease our offensive potential. So while technically this warrior could out wound your sipping, with decent parry/stance,and use of rebounding, you neutralize most warriors offensive potential by about 30-40%. This isn't even considering skills like Magnetize, which essentially halves our offence by itself alone.(though Im well aware this is something that can be dealt with, just brought it up for emphasis.)
Note that all of these things are essentially passive, in that they can be done without using losing out on your offensive potential (magnetize excluded)

There is then the problem of armour. Warriors -need- incredible protection physically to make up for our utter lack of passive health regens and hinderance that the other classes get. We do not have the passive offence that constantly hinders our enemies either. Problems arise when non-warrior classes can get Slendor robes with cutting resist as high as 79(the highest I've seen with Amaru) which makes these warriors even that much more ineffective.

Weapon caps as they are now essentially renders forthcoming warriors on the majority as lacking incredibly in the combat sphere of lusternia.

I also feel that one part of the problem stemms from a select few of the higher up warriors possessing pre nerf weapons. While I understand that it's general IRE policy not to nerf forged weapons or anything of the sort, I think it would be at least fair in the opinion of myself and quite a few others, to bring down weapons to a cap, HOWEVER, the current cap must be raised in order to prevent reducing every warriors offensive ability to null without at combat rune of every sort.

Anyone's thoughts, comments, and ideas on the matter would be appreciated.

I have to agree. For me A so called up-and-commer I have a horrid time fighting anyone thats a top teir warrior. Sometimes because of lack of sertin skills focus mind but most of the time because i can't do any woundage. It's all gone in one aplication and 34/35 damage hammers are nothing to fear. most just use damn sparkle. So really it's become crap for me to PvP and have any fun or even try and killing anyone worth killing unless in a group.

I remember forging a set of hammers with which to test out some pvp as well as some nice speed.

I found them totally ineffective against anyone but a newbie, and thats with the champ helm on. With the champ helm off i may as well just run away from all battles every time. I tend to agree with diamante on all points there, however if we're forced to bring our weapons back to cap i'd like to see my current artifact runes come off my weapons and be back in my inventory so i can decide what weapons to best to put them on as i feel morningstars might have what i'm looking for, albeit a fair bit slower.

Though I'm no oldbie, I'm in agreement. Too tired to explain.

Then don't post until you can.

Please contact your Envoys over this.

I think it was meant as a discussion thread, but yeh i'm sure narsrim will be real keen to argue his case against warriors altogehter

Unfortunately I've only seen my envoy once in the past month and a half or so. Of course I messaged in response to replacing him, but i meant this thread to be more a discussion among those that are pretty active in combat(as just about every major fighter reads these threads, and see if we could come up with some middle ground to send in as envoy, rather than my opinion solely. I firmly believe it's the envoys jobs to submit a report that reflects a ground that most his guild feels compfortable, not just as a personal place to get skills that beat you nerfed. Since much of my guild no longer cares for combat of any sort, I'd thought I'd throw it out for public discussion

here here!

I didn't close the thread. I just moved it to the combat section. Feel free to discuss it here but the admin won't be looking at it as we are working with the envoys. I emphasize, however, that all concerns should go through the Envoys. If there are general concerns that affect your entire archetype, you can bring it up to any Envoy of that archetype.

More importantly, if your envoy is never around, get another one. Envoys are important to the guilds for balancing skills and should NOT be given to a person just for the prestige of being called an Envoy. If you choose your Envoys just to reward someone, then you only have yourselves to blame if nothing ever gets done for your guild.

Oh no, can't behead people in two hits with new weapons? What ever shall you do?

That is not at all what he was saying, the least you could do is respect such a long post with actually reading it before you comment.

You're right, I didn't read it

I did read it this time because you told me to, and thats still essentially what I get out of it. I consider myself to be a decent fighter. I'm by no means amazing, but I can hold my own against a lot of people, thanks to Geb's system. But the pre-nerf weapons pretty consistantly beat the crap out of me if I do anything but run away, despite parry (both weapon and shield), stancing, and rebounding. And truthfully, these new aspiring warriors are hardly sucking. If they can't do any damage to other warriors... nerf armour too so they can't tank 4-5 astral creatures any more.

I believe he said, raise the current cap, but make it lower than the previous cap. That does NOT mean everyone should be beheading in two hits. It means, there needs to be a middle ground.

While a twohanded weapon might behead quickly, the two one handed weapons don't, so there needs to be some balance.

Also, considering warriors don't have many methods to stop someone from running away, it doesn't seem that bad to me that one is 'forced' to, since its always an option.

They have more methods then me

So if you nerf armour can we nerf greatrobes? My only concern for the two handed group is that the percision of greataxe and greatswords are alittle to good since there really isnt a great cap. I feel that to help with the problem that assault and sweep shouldnt do more wounds I do medium easy on a 349 percision klangaxe which is equal to a 158 rapier. I really cant talk about one handed weapons since lately the only archtype i have a serious problem with is bonecrusher and those that are bonecrushers that i fight have pre-nerf weapons.

When the slightly above average non-titan mage can break 7000 health, sure!

I feel that all weapons should be reduced to stat caps and as such point, the warrior class as a whole can be reviewed and tweaked. At it stands, however, it is nearly impossible to do without drastically overpowering or underpowering specific persons.

I would also note for people who always complain about credits, credits were used to purchase artifact runes, which in this case wouldn't be changing whatsoever. The initial base stats on the weapon would, which were forged and thus not an artifact purchase.

I would also add that I have a log of where Murphy was able to brainbash me in 3 combos. That was under 10 seconds from no wounds, where 4/6 attacks stunned.

And some of us bought the runes specifically to go onto the forged weapons with their current stats, and wouldn't put them on the weapon if things were reduced to caps (and especially if nothing else was raised to compensate). If you want to mess around with existing weapons, the very least you can do is remove all runes from them and set the runes back into your inventory- this means that if you want to trade them in, you still only get artifact credits, otherwise you can put the rune on a different weapon more your style.

For the record, I don't mind messing with caps on existing weapons-- just remove the runes if you do so. (Really, who's going to rune a 38 / 180 / 200 rapier?)

I think it is totally fair that you could be able to get the rune back in your inventory to put on a new weapon.