Warriors are underpowered?

by Unknown

Back to Combat Logs.

Murphy2006-02-09 07:07:39
QUOTE(Narsrim @ Feb 9 2006, 04:48 PM) 256088

This is a log from no wounds; parrying head 100%; stancing head
Highlights:

1. I died in under ~15 seconds (it was more like 10, but we'll give a +5 second margin). You can see this quite clearly because I started with 6p (from where I had formerly ran and fully healed) and end with 7p.

2. Parry and stance have no impact against crushes

3. Parry and stance have no impact against attacks while stunned

4. At the very least, I still managed to pull a health application to head (as if it mattered) in the middle of this... which meant nothing

===================================================

This just goes to show if you cannot keep a warrior permanently bound, you have no chance against this sort of wounding.

While you can complain about my curing all you want, I beat Daevos in our last FFA 1-to-1. I beat Diamante, Terenas, Deangelo, and Ekard the last times I sparred them too. This is a case clear-and-simple that combat is reduced to 2 marcos that you can spam.

You will note that in between the last combo, Murphy was able to stun/raze/smitedown before stun ended. If I had rebound up (which I didn't), it still wouldn't have meant a damn thing.


Narsrim you should've been spamming web in there, while i'm on a crush run you need to be defending and hindering as best you can.

Ok lets have a look at your points, In 15 seconds you yourself can Allhex, sleeplock and stunlock if someone forgets metawake

I wouldn't put money on it, but i'd bet a poke in the eye with a blunt stick that you weren't enlarged which helps against the stun.





Ok now lets run through that log, i'll copy it here and comment on it.

This is a log from no wounds; parrying head 100%; stancing head <- first point in case, doing both of those is rediculous, i didn't even NEED to crush your leg if you aren't stancing the bastard, i've told you about this so much but you fail to listen, i can't work out why


QUOTE(Narsrim)

With a focused look, Murphy strikes at you with a brutal war hammer.
Your head snaps back as your skull is crushed hard and fractures, causing your thoughts to spin.
You shrug off the effects of the poison.
4545h, 6493m, 4444e, 6p, 17748en xk-

You flap your arms madly.
4545h, 6493m, 4444e, 6p, 17748en xk- Failed Apply Health <- This is a system issue, try spamming a few commands a bit more.

You take out some salve and quickly rub it on your head.
Your double vision subsides as the breaks in your skull fuse together.
4545h, 6493m, 4444e, 6p, 17748en xk-

With a focused look, Murphy strikes at you with a brutal war hammer.
Your head snaps back as your skull is crushed hard and fractures, causing your thoughts to spin.
4314h, 6493m, 4444e, 6p, 17748en xk-

You chew an arnica bud, then spread it on your head.
Your double vision subsides as the breaks in your skull fuse together.
4314h, 6493m, 4444e, 6p, 17748en xk-

You chew an arnica bud, then spread it on your head.
The arnica bud has no discernable effect.
4314h, 6493m, 4444e, 6p, 17748en xk-

You bleed 14 health.
4300h, 6493m, 4444e, 6p, 17748en xk-

The crone crosses her shriveled arms and turns her dark, penetrating gaze upon Murphy.

4300h, 6493m, 4444e, 6p, 17748en xk-

You may apply another salve to yourself.
4300h, 6493m, 4444e, 6p, 17748en xk-

You exert superior mental control and your wounds clot before your eyes.
4300h, 6439m, 4444e, 6p, 17748en xk-

You may eat or smoke another herb.
4300h, 6439m, 4444e, 6p, 17748en xk-

Murphy takes a drink from a diamond vial.
4300h, 6439m, 4444e, 6p, 17748en xk-

You have recovered equilibrium.
4300h, 6439m, 4444e, 6p, 17748en exk-

Your a pooka is wrestling for control of Murphy and cannot command him right now.
4538h, 6514m, 4444e, 6p, 17748en exk-

You raise your arms and dance around Murphy. As you spin faster and
fasteraround him, you feel more and more energized as his skin becomes paler
and paler.
4776h, 6469m, 4444e, 6p, 17748en xk-

Murphy eats a sparkleberry.
4776h, 6469m, 4444e, 6p, 17748en xk-

With a focused look, Murphy strikes at you with a brutal war hammer.
Your head snaps back as your skull is crushed hard and fractures, causing your thoughts to spin.
4545h, 6469m, 4444e, 6p, 17768en xk-

Discontentedly, you mutter, "Why, one of these days, I oughta..." Failed Mending <- Same again, get the stupid messages and trigger them to do last action.
4545h, 6469m, 4444e, 6p, 17768en xk-

You flap your arms madly. Failed Apply Health Gee you need work with your stupidity handling

4545h, 6469m, 4444e, 6p, 17768en xk-


With a focused look, Murphy strikes at you with a brutal war hammer.
Your nose is savagely crushed and breaks, causing blood to splurt forth.
4314h, 6469m, 4444e, 6p, 17768en xkp-

You are too stunned to be able to do anything.
4314h, 6469m, 4444e, 6p, 17768en xkp-

A brownie runs up and tickles Murphy's sides.
4314h, 6469m, 4444e, 7p, 17768en xkp-

The rain turns into snow as the temperature drops.
4314h, 6469m, 4444e, 7p, 17768en xkp-

You have recovered equilibrium.
4314h, 6469m, 4444e, 7p, 17768en exkp-

You are too stunned to be able to do anything.
4314h, 6469m, 4444e, 7p, 17768en exkp-

You are no longer stunned.
4314h, 6469m, 4444e, 7p, 17768en exk-

You fondle yourself absently. Failed Apply Health <- again with the stupidity

4314h, 6763m, 4444e, 7p, 17768en exk-

You eat a sparkleberry.
You feel your health, mana and ego replenished.
4776h, 6763m, 4444e, 7p, 17768en exk-

You take out some salve and quickly rub it on your head.
The deep damage in your head partially heals. FINALLY

4776h, 6763m, 4444e, 7p, 17768en exk-

You eat a stalk of faeleaf.
You already possess the gift of the sixth sense.
4776h, 6763m, 4444e, 7p, 17768en exk-

4776h, 6763m, 4444e, 7p, 17768en exk-

Your a pooka is wrestling for control of Murphy and cannot command him
right now.
4776h, 6763m, 4444e, 7p, 17768en exk-

You raise your arms and dance around Murphy. As you spin faster and
faster around him, you feel more and more energized as his skin becomes paler
and paler.

4776h, 6718m, 4444e, 7p, 17768en xk-

You bleed 104 health.
4672h, 6718m, 4444e, 7p, 17768en xk-

With a focused look, Murphy strikes at you with a brutal war hammer.
Your right leg is elegantly crushed and swept out from under you,
knocking you to the ground.
Hmmmm. Why must everything be so difficult to figure out?
4441h, 6718m, 4444e, 7p, 17768en xkp-

You are too stunned to be able to do anything.
4441h, 6718m, 4444e, 7p, 17768en xkp-

Murphy takes a drink from a diamond vial.
4441h, 6718m, 4444e, 7p, 17768en xkp-

Drawing back on his tiny bow, a pixie shoots an arrow straight at
Murphy.
4441h, 6718m, 4444e, 7p, 17788en xkp-

Murphy razes your speed defence with a brutal war hammer.
4441h, 6718m, 4444e, 7p, 17788en xkp-

You may eat or smoke another herb.
4441h, 6718m, 4444e, 7p, 17788en xkp-

Murphy clenches his fists and grits his teeth.
4441h, 6718m, 4444e, 7p, 17788en xkp-

You are too stunned to be able to do anything.
4441h, 6718m, 4444e, 7p, 17788en xkp-

A banshee stares at Murphy, then suddenly emits a high-pitched screech
at him,causing the colour to drain from his face.
4441h, 6718m, 4444e, 7p, 17788en xkp-

With a heavy overhand stroke, Murphy slams a brutal war hammer down upon
you. Your skull is smited with a numbing blow. You briefly realize the
spray of gore and brains that is filling your field of vision belongs to
you before you die.The blow continues into your body, causing a
sickening cracking and mashing sound. A burst of unbearable pain jolts
through you before it vanishes suddenly,and you realise you have fallen
into the cold embrace of death.

You have been slain by Murphy.





So, to embrace the entirety of this log, You need to work on stupidity handling a bit more and while stancing legs wouldn't have saved you, in most cases it would've. FIX YOUR DAMN SYSTEM!

Once i started crushing you would've done well to have rebounding up and then shielded, causing me a double raze situation allowing you to move away, webwhore, aeon do whatever till your head is fixed up enough, and then work on killing me from there.

I also got lucky on the knockdown, and i got lucky on the smitedown hitting. Its not like i can gaurantee this happenening every time
Asarnil2006-02-09 07:08:40
QUOTE(Narsrim @ Feb 9 2006, 04:57 PM) 256079

Please. Most people require almost nothing to reforge because they use all metal weapons. Thorgal told me once that he needed like 30 some leather to reforge full plate from a Glomdoring cartel. 30 freakin leather.

I don't call that excessive.

On the flip side if I get bad robes, I just have to start over and have a whole new set made.


Have you even LOOKED at comm prices, or are you just being your usual ignorant trolling dumbass self? When I went warrior back again in the last week or so, guess how much it cost me to get the commodities for just a set of fieldplate, the helm and two flails. Please tell me. Over the last week I have spent about 400k and 20 credits JUST to get that far - I haven't even had the money to look at restocking on vials, herbs and enchantments, not to mention a decent set of hammers or morningstars. Show me ONE other class that bothers to spend that kind of cash to get outfitted as best as possible and I will call bullshit - you all settle for whatever mediocrities are available instead of pushing for the best equipment you can buy.

Edit: Just as a note - what I have spent translates into 120 credits I could have put into making myself better by the old credit prices - over 170 by new credit prices.
Unknown2006-02-09 07:12:36
QUOTE(Murphy @ Feb 9 2006, 06:31 AM) 256080

I bring up parrying and stancing when it comes down to bonecrushers usually.

I don't have much to do with 2h weapons, but Narsrim fact is your parrying stancing and woundhealing really blows hardcore, and until you fix it up i maintain you cannot properly have the right point of view on things.

fix your system



You're a classy guy most of the time, Narsrim, but he's right. While you definetly earn and own your place in the top tier as far as offense, tactic and overall ability to make good use of what's available to you, your parrying, stancing and woundhealing are neglected. I assume it's because you don't worry about it as much as other things (or you vie to sip instead of apply most often), but in the two clashes of our many that I actually had an opportunity to put some hits in, I pinlegged you far too easily. You still whooped me of course, but Murphy isn't talking out of his arse when he says you could do better.

Edit: Just now noticed your Log, Nars. Ignore what I posted for now. tongue.gif
Murphy2006-02-09 07:12:50
QUOTE(geb @ Feb 9 2006, 04:51 PM) 256090

4 power is not a lot of power. It also takes a lot less time to regain 4 power than it does to regain 10. Now what I find funny is that in another thread you were complaining about Inquisition. That is skill that requires multiple power expenditures to get to that point. Expenditures that costs more power and takes greater time to complete than 4 power for an assault or crush combo (or 8 power for 4 crushes, 2 assaults).

I just wish everyone would be a bit more consistent in his or her arguments. If it is fine the way things are concerning your crushes since they supposedly can’t be whored, then it is fine the way inquisition is since it definitely can’t be whored.


Inquisition is fine if I can have my sacrifice workable dammit.

Serrin2006-02-09 07:20:38
Hmm.. field plate will cost about 30k if you go for the cheapest stuff possible (based on Magnagora's comm prices). And field plate seems to be forging weirdly of late and requiring a couple reforges to get away from 69/90 type stats, which are just retarded.

A greathelm will cost about 5k more after that.
Masterweapons will be 15-20k per weapon for 1 handers and 40k+ for 2handers. And that's just for the comm prices, I've been forging for about 9 days now (80+ hours all told) trying to get scimitar stats that are still subpar compared to pre-nerf and haven't been successful.

Warriors earn their 'overpoweredness' a whole lot more than any other class can claim to, and are still just as easily negated by stall tactics.
Unknown2006-02-09 07:29:34
QUOTE(Serrin @ Feb 9 2006, 06:56 AM) 256091

My scimitars are 244 and 236 precision after nightkiss/runes and I would never be able to pull off something like what Murphy just did.

People need to quit lumping 'warriors' together. Lunge doesn't land any of the nasty afflictions on head, and even getting a quick pinleg doesn't put me very high. I'm not going to bleed them out with that, and if I focus too long on other body parts I lose my ability to pinleg again and they can flee or tie me up with afflictions or what not.



Yeah to be utterly honest pureblade and axelord take some of the 'swordplay' out of the fight , to me. When you can cleave with a minimal balance penalty and do 1,500 wounding with a single well-placed assault(Not to mention putting someone to a lock with that same initial assault if your senso applies and your dex shows you some love), it's not really required to be any good. A good example is that mitch guy with the wicked klangaxe who was slamming me for almost 1,000 damage a swing(still no idea how that's possible, wish I had the log) the month after I turned human and went to faethorn to test my new legs. He's an inept combatant at this point and he damn near almost killed me, I took him down because he has low response-time and failed to parry his legs. Good ol' pinleg.

Lunge is fine, as Serrin points out - sure you can be a cheapo and just lunge rleg, lunge rleg right off the bat but that isn't always gonna get you a pinleg. Even if it does you can only maintain it in a over-fucking momentum for what? (2 lunges already = 4 power)one more round? If your dex dosn't fail you? After that you're using normal jabs, and if your opponent is any decent (even if he's igasho)he's writhed by now and parried that damn leg. Possibly stacking stance onto it as well. Lunge is a clean powerskill, it's a simplistic value meant for opportunistic usage. A blademaster lets his venoms and speed-stacked wounding/etc do the work until something worthwhile starts to hurt. Once that something worthwhile starts to hurt, he lunges it like it owes him money. You'll want to note that dosn't work on the head either because we can't behead with a jab, and lunges = jabs.

Not that I'm complaining about pureblades or klangaxes, that's what gigantic slow weapons are for - less finesse, more boom. Just want to be sure everybody understands the situation with blademasters is far different
Morik2006-02-09 07:42:52
QUOTE(PercivalEdmundChang @ Feb 9 2006, 03:29 PM) 256102

Lunge is fine, as Serrin points out - sure you can be a cheapo and just lunge rleg, lunge rleg right off the bat but that isn't always gonna get you a pinleg. Even if it does you can only maintain it in a over-fucking momentum for what? (2 lunges already = 4 power)one more round? If your dex dosn't fail you? After that you're using normal jabs, and if your opponent is any decent (even if he's igasho)he's writhed by now and parried that damn leg. Possibly stacking stance onto it as well. Lunge is a clean powerskill, it's a simplistic value meant for opportunistic usage. A blademaster lets his venoms and speed-stacked wounding/etc do the work until something worthwhile starts to hurt. Once that something worthwhile starts to hurt, he lunges it like it owes him money. You'll want to note that dosn't work on the head either because we can't behead with a jab, and lunges = jabs.

Not that I'm complaining about pureblades or klangaxes, that's what gigantic slow weapons are for - less finesse, more boom. Just want to be sure everybody understands the situation with blademasters is far different


Welcome to my world Kurt. Don't post-nerf weapons suck ass? tongue.gif

We should arena spar more. Or, actually, we can spar on Ethereal from time to time if you want to do it honourable-like. Regaining XP from a single death isn't hard.
Asarnil2006-02-09 08:13:29
QUOTE(Serrin @ Feb 9 2006, 05:50 PM) 256100

Hmm.. field plate will cost about 30k if you go for the cheapest stuff possible (based on Magnagora's comm prices). And field plate seems to be forging weirdly of late and requiring a couple reforges to get away from 69/90 type stats, which are just retarded.

A greathelm will cost about 5k more after that.
Masterweapons will be 15-20k per weapon for 1 handers and 40k+ for 2handers. And that's just for the comm prices, I've been forging for about 9 days now (80+ hours all told) trying to get scimitar stats that are still subpar compared to pre-nerf and haven't been successful.

Warriors earn their 'overpoweredness' a whole lot more than any other class can claim to, and are still just as easily negated by stall tactics.


Just based on comm prices, its going to cost me 25k per morning star, 20k per hammer just on comms - and thats not including paying the guy to sit there and forge decent weapons for you (it took about 30 reforges just on one of my masterwork flails - and even on only 1k per reforge that is 60-70k right there).
Serrin2006-02-09 08:24:56
The only thing I can say is pick someone who has all-metal weapon patterns tongue.gif. I base my prices offa magnagora comm prices.
Unknown2006-02-09 08:34:59
QUOTE(morik @ Feb 9 2006, 07:42 AM) 256106

Welcome to my world Kurt. Don't post-nerf weapons suck ass? tongue.gif

We should arena spar more. Or, actually, we can spar on Ethereal from time to time if you want to do it honourable-like. Regaining XP from a single death isn't hard.


I'd like that.

This is my list before I'ma let myself be arrogant about how good of a Blademaster I am:

Morik (7 times)
Ekard (at least 2)
Xenthos (7 times)
Serrin (5 times)

Problem is while fighting Serrin I found out there's a horrendous buggy loop in my system, one I can't find the root of. So I might have to just start my whole gig over. Hopefully not.
Morik2006-02-09 08:38:53
QUOTE(PercivalEdmundChang @ Feb 9 2006, 04:34 PM) 256119

I'd like that.

This is my list before I'ma let myself be arrogant about how good of a Blademaster I am:

Morik (7 times)
Ekard (at least 2)
Xenthos (7 times)
Serrin (5 times)

Problem is while fighting Serrin I found out there's a horrendous buggy loop in my system, one I can't find the root of. So I might have to just start my whole gig over. Hopefully not.


Whats that a number of?
Asarnil2006-02-09 08:55:16
Serrin - thats WITH all metal (or close to) patterns.
Unknown2006-02-09 09:15:00
The amount of times I have to beat you consecutively before I can consider it a valid conquest
Icarus2006-02-09 09:32:05
QUOTE(PercivalEdmundChang @ Feb 9 2006, 03:29 PM) 256102

Yeah to be utterly honest pureblade and axelord take some of the 'swordplay' out of the fight , to me. When you can cleave with a minimal balance penalty and do 1,500 wounding with a single well-placed assault(Not to mention putting someone to a lock with that same initial assault if your senso applies and your dex shows you some love), it's not really required to be any good.


I think Roark mentioned some time ago that Cleave balance is slightly slower than a raze/slash but does slightly more damage, with all other factors equal.

It is actually better to be able to deliver two 750-wounding blows than one 1,500-wounding blow. You get another chance to afflict (both poison and wound afflictions), and you can hit different bodyparts, like Bonecrushers' favourite combo Crush Leg/Smite Down.

Slitthroat/Senso combo seems too much and it is mentioned in the envoy reports, I think. Other than that, Axelords and Pureblades are in no way easier than Blademasters or Bonecrushers. Ask Terenas. Ask Daevos. tongue.gif
Unknown2006-02-09 09:38:31
The word easier never came up.
Icarus2006-02-09 09:42:58
QUOTE(PercivalEdmundChang @ Feb 9 2006, 05:38 PM) 256134

The word easier never came up.


Ah! Let me rephrase.

Axelords and Pureblades do not require less to be good than Blademasters or Bonecrushers.

happy.gif
Asarnil2006-02-09 09:54:03
The only reason they don't require less to be good is because they have one good attack (IE assaulting for behead) and a few other tricks. But then take a look at any of the specialisations and try and pick one that doesn't have to rely on only a very few tactics to beat a decent opponent.
Unknown2006-02-09 10:00:43
QUOTE(Icarus @ Feb 9 2006, 09:42 AM) 256137

Ah! Let me rephrase.

Axelords and Pureblades do not require less to be good than Blademasters or Bonecrushers.

happy.gif


I wasn't exactly thorough in my post as to what I was addressing. I'll just be blunt.

I have a sprinkle of disdain for pre-nerf Greatswords, and their axelord equivalent.

Otherwise, I think Pureblade and Axelord are just as player-skill worthy as Blademaster. Particularly Pureblades who use Katanas.
Torak2006-02-09 10:37:49
Someone post a log of two assults on the head by Ciaran, a bunch of people told me his wounds were more then Daevos's before he had the helm, but since I have been on nexus for a while I can't really fnd out.
Narsrim2006-02-09 11:30:59
Good luck getting him to consent to a test