I don't like wounds, though I have no data to base that off (because I don't have a proper system, so as I don't have an ai autoparryer, stancer and woundchecker I can't really talk).

I have a question for the knights though. Assuming that you equate wounds requiring one application of health to the equivalent raw damage that taking a sip in the same time would heal, and adding that to the actual damage that you hit for... what effective damage are you dealing? As an example, if you sip for around 500 health, and an assault with your weapon will do 500 wounds + 600 damage to a non-warrior, then you've effectively hit them for 1100 damage. That assumes that one application of health heals around 600 wounds, but I don't know the exact amount. Now, this isn't quite a good analogy, because wounds have their own afflictions that go along with the damage, but its something I'd be curious to know. Maybe even compare the result between speed knights and damage knights.

Remember, power strikes against a NONWARRIOR with reasonable robes.

hmm thats an interesting analogy my chum....however its lacking in a few areas.

firstly, you can't die to legwounds or armwounds and a lesser extent, chestwounds.

i've often though this through a lot, but i can't come up with a fair comparison so my belief is it can't be done.

Also the fact that guilds are not left with only health to sip and apply. MD's get the mother , and you guys can take alchemy to increase your sip. Druids get medicinebag to help with major health(and don't tell me it's not worth it, at full buffers I can touch bag for 3200 health< usually around 1800-2000 at 6000ish) as well as passive hindering by your entourage, so you do not take a constant 1100 damage every single round, that would be crazy, and we would own every time, heh. But remember kids, passive is always > than active in combat

This is from what I've noticed. One application of health will cure about 800 wounds. Now some people have given about 2400 wounds to me in one 2 lunges or a single assault. That is 4 applications of health to cure back to 0. Now the balance recovery on sipping and apply health is about 4.5 seconds for me. So it would take me about 13.5 seconds of complete concentration on hindering, running, or some combination of both to heal back to 0 without gaining anymore wound damage. That is a lot of time spent on being purely defensive for some classes.

Now there is no exact comparison to sipping and apply for one particular reason. Natural and artificial regeneration does not apply for most people. So, you can over time regenerate that health damage, but for the most part you can keep the same wound damage level from one fight to the next. Which is another good reason why to always check your wounds after you have finished a fight. It won’t help you to walk into another one already behind the curve, and that curve can be mighty wide.

Don't forget gebbers that you don't always need to cure back to 0 wounds, once the attacker is out of power, you can be at around 1200 head wounds and not be too phased, I do it all the time and i've only been beheaded like once from daevos.

In fact i haven't died to a head instakill i think maybe once or twice in 6 RL months or so? I'm not sure.

That is not true. I've played a monk on Achaea. They have no passive attacks. None, nadda, zilch. Yet, they are also one of the most devastating classes to have to fight against. Just like here, what good is passive attacks if the person can kill you in two to three combos? Also, tell me one set of passive effects that can kill a good fighter in two to three ticks? And I mean good fighter, not a fighter that has good weapons and only needs to assault head over and over for the win against most people.



You also have a great helm. One assault from him does near 2500 wounds to me. Now consider what you said again Murphy. That new 2500 wounds are enough to put me in the critical range easily. It is also enough to give him the beheading he desires. Perhaps you and other warriors can get away with walking around with 1200 wounds on your head, but a mage/guardian/wiccan/druid would be a fool to do that. Then when they did walk here and complain about the beheading, the first words coming out of 'The Committee for Warrior Dominance' mouth would be, "Was your head already wounded?"

As a damage warrior i only ever had to hit my bashing macros over and over to beat most people, its the good fighters that you want to kill as a good fighter yourself.

Then the solution in my eyes is simple, allow all classes to wear greathelms, its a broad range effective measure that gives everyone the same chance to aoid those 2 assault beheads.

Yeah, Ciaran was quite scary. The important thing here is he has high str, forging runes and the stat bonus. Whats the forging rune and nightkiss stat bonus on two-handeds? It sure as hell isn't +10/10/10.

I'd take active effects over passive anyday.

I'm not saying applying health = sipping health. I just want to know what effective damage is being dealt. I'm happy that its completely unrepresentative of anything, just humour me.

Isn't that laying it on a bit thick? Before the changes to trolls and the house artifacts (which were retarded problems they are fixing) Monks weren't "one of the most devestating classses to have to fight against", in fact they were only rated above snakes and knights as the worst offensive classes in the game, that is of course unless you forked out for offensive artifacts out of the wazoo. Well there is the grook monk problem, but they are arty-whored to the max too in the int boosting/magic offensive department.

Warriors want passive effects and Mages want active effects. The solution is simple. Everyone just switch archtype and we will see!

I've tried it - couldn't stand being a mage after being a warrior so long, so just changed back after quitting the game for ages. Then it cost me over 100 credits worth of cash to get re-equipped and i'm not even finished getting re-equipped yet. I don't suggest people take that option.

Evidently you were not one in the old days. I was, and monks were still very devastating to fight against when the monk knew what he or she was doing. Those who did not know how to count limb hits; how to set up double to quad breaks; when to follow up with choke; and how to effectively use telepathy to deal with sapping; would complain about monks being weak. Those who knew those things knew better than to complain about monk offensive power. I never had a problem with monk offense.

The only upgrades I wanted for monks were a few more afflictions in telepathy and perhaps an attack that gave disloyalty. That was all I ever felt the class needed. It could deal with everything else, but some people have to have the easy solution to their problems. If they can’t kill the person with two Tekura combos to the torso, then something is wrong with the class. Ohm… That sounds familiar to Lusternia, does it not?

Geb - I have been a monk on Achaea for over 6 years. We were good for a while (only overpowered against those who couldn't cure that well - which I must admit was a problem back in those days since the only person to have a decent system was Tranquility), were steadily downgraded into oblivion and have only really fairly recently become mid-range to top-tier again.

Yeah a monk who knew what they were doing was a force to be feared, but it was hardly as cut as dry as you make out it was especially considering how hard we had to work to actually kill our opponents once they learnt how to cure.

Edit: It wasn't a problem with offensive power as much of a problem as it was a lack of useful afflictions to keep our opponents down long enough to finish them off. There were only two to three useful skills in the entire skillset of telepathy, tekura stuff was easily taken care of if you knew how to code, and kaido was the only shining point in the entire class - much like Athletics here is as awesome in its own way.

I was waiting for you to say something about Telepathy. I've used telepathy to quickly set a person up for an AXK/UCP/UCP combo. All it took was a simple batter, paralysis, reapply stupidity, confusion, disruption, sweepkick. I've had people come out of the combo asking, "What the heck did you do to me?” Yes, Telepathy got a downgrade namely through the change in the way locks worked, but it was still far from useless. It was also the best means of keeping a sapping class from being able to use the half mana insta-kill. Telepathy was also the easiest way to destroy a mage that decided to foolishly drop a retardation vibration.

Batter and paralysis are the two MVP's of the offensive telepathy skills. And how many actual good curers did you use that combo against? Because I know a few people who wouldn't have had a problem keeping up with the afflictions as fast as you would have been throwing them unless you were a grook.

I was a raja-monk since I liked versatility in my offense. I used it on plenty of people under various circumstances, considering that stupidity did help slow things up. One person namely that I remember asking what I did to him was Katalyst. Now, the combo would not work on everyone. But, that was the beauty about the class. It had plenty of options to go too. Heck, I bet you did not know that you could tie in a sting with two fist attacks. Monks are one of the most versatile classes in Achaea. It was such a deep class that I was learning new tricks continuously by studying my skills and listening to monks like Koralin (Who by the way was probably the best monk that I have ever fought against, and I’ve fought and defeated the likes of Tranquility, Ryukishi, Jhui, etc)

Yes actually I did know that about sting - I went and abused it accordingly on Imperian a LOT during the early days as the only Akrabi monk. Koralin was one of the best - the things he could do with just transmute was amazing. And as has been stated numerous times on numerous forms of communication - without his artifacts Tranq is nothing these days.

Just so we don't spam up this topic even more than we did, from now on - wanna take it to messages?

Passive is not beter then active. If anything at all they are equal, but without the passive you have to keep in mind that the active is going to be lacking in overall effectiveness(IE mage without demesnes), and the fact that you know its coming and have the proper defenses for dealing with this passive afflicting ect gives you an up. Whereas active always has the randomized factor in that you never know what the person will do. That is my take, but as I said before I view them as equal if anything.