A. I never cried foul as I was always able to get the potions I wanted. Like I said, I like viable black markets, I tend to gain from them. I might have argued that potions are such a needed thing from Bashing to PK to just doing Magnagoran power quests that there should not be a monolopy.

B. I don't see the comparison between Crow Cloaks and Potions. Crow cloaks have 1 use in very specific and limited situations. Its like a Cleanse enchantment needed to cure Sap. Potions however have so many uses and are needed for every aspect of Lusternia, its really not comparable. remember that Magnagorans who were involved in Combat got POtions all they wanted, it was always the Novices who couldn't get potions because it you had to go to the black market for it.

Or someone who hates Magnagora?

You don't hate Magnagora by giving sacred cloaks to Celest or Serenwilde...

Psh.. I offered Malicia all the time... even said I would give them away for free....

"sacred" is a varying term.

Sacred could mean that you never use the cloak for anything besides ritual.

Sacred could me that you respect its powers and don't drop it in the mud.

Sacred could mean that you use it as a tool to convert people to your causes...

You have lots of room with these things.

Daganev,

Your feeble attempts to argue semantics will get you nowhere in this thread. The bottom line is that while everyone understands that they can bs anything, it isn't a solution. There are basic standards than in general are not going to be crossed solely to have equal grounds mechanically against other organizations.

Serenwilde is not going to bs up a storm to come up with a reason to adopt the use of Crow Cloaks. We are just as likely to bs up a storm and claim the entire Commune was founded by settlers from Candyland and as such adopt such habits as licking each other on the off chance someone tastes of ginger.

Likewise, it seems that several people of Glomdoring feel that the crow cloaks are items that should not be distributed for the sake of a few gold coins.

You can argue what "sacred" means all you want. That means jack to the reality of the situation.

Not really....

Why do you insist that the Admin change the game for you just because your own RP limits your ablities?

For many years it was in the interest of Glomdoring to give away if not directly sell cloaks. And I'm sure if there was a demand for it, it could be again. There will always be people in each organization who are for and against any idea.

Why must you always support something where you could even remotely make a profit?

Likewise, did you support the admins changing Rowena to sell alchemy based goods pre-Glomdoring?

In the end, there will be times when admin change is necessary to ensure fairness. While yes, everyone could just give up their roleplay and metagame (which you seem to advocate more than any other person), I'm willing to bet that is worse off for Lusternia in the long run.

Why in the world would Serenwilde or Celest want to influence Ankgrag if they arn't even willing to get the means to influence it?

Its not metagaming to have priorities of morals or a village, it is metagaming to say you want a village that you Icly hate.

Also, as I don't have access to crow cloaks, I can't really make profit on this anymore.. However, as a method of Game play, I think Black Markets are great fun, and add to the world making it more interesting.

However, black markets for the sake of a black market tend to be boring and not very usefull.

*ding ding ding*

Serenwilde and Celest do NOT want to influence Angkrag!

The problem is that Angkrag is thus a "free" village to Magnagora (and a lesser extent Glomdoring) because there is

1. No RP justifcation for Serenwilde/Celest to influence Angkrag (in fact, I'm going to take this a step further and say there is also not much justification for Glomdoring to really influence it as well).

2. It is mechnically borderline impossible for Serenwilde or Celest (and again, even Glomdoring) to equally compete against Magnagora for Angkrag. Even if you consider crow cloaks, villages go into play at random times. Thus, it would essentially require all active influencers to have a crow cloak at any given time. That's just not feasible - not even feasible for Glomdoring let alone everyone else.

==============================================

Why does this matter? Aside from the fact that Magnagora ends up with a free village that requires no competition to obtain, Estarra has suggested paired revolts and paired up Angkrag with Dairuchi. The issue I had was that Dairuchi is something all parties can equally influence and covet, yet Angkrag is not. Thus, the "paired" system fails in this case.

Its only 'Free' because you choose it to be free.

We're going in a circle.

Your concept of free and my concept of free are different. Of course, you also don't think roleplay should factor into decisions so I guess we'll just say this is a metagame versus roleplayer debate and leave it at that.

Although I do think it is amusing that you fail to address the issue that given how village rebellions are random, you seem to think Serenwilde and Celest should on a day-by-day basis buying endless amounts of crow cloaks for their members because they do decay quickly... so I guess every couple months we should just send over a couple hundred thousand gold for them. Could you be anymore bias?

Narsrim, stop talking out of your arse.

You havn't made a good point yet, save saying that the current political climate, which is defined by players, says you won't do it.

You won't do it, is not the same as can't do it.

Do notice that I said changed would give an Unfair advantage TO Glomdoring...

who is the bias one here?

You still have not given an actual RP reason why Serenwilde and Celest would want a village filled with the Undead. It goes against their RP's and their Gods RP's to want that. Stop saying we should do it for the sake of getting a village and to gain power and to gain commodities, its not going to work that way. Nor is it right to suggest we get a Crow Cloak and/or a rogue Necromancer, why would we want that? It goes against the teachings of Serenwilde and the Light. Why would White Hart want Serenwilders to use that which trys to destroy him and Serenwilde to replace it with the Glomdoring?Its like suggesting that Moon and Night should give Fae to each other or to concede rights to Faethorn to one or the other. It just doesnt work that way. No one even wants it to work that way from those two areas. And once more it falls to Ankrag being a village pretty much only influencable by Glomdoring and Magnagora.

Daganev,

Notice that not a single person agrees with you on this including Xenthos or Richter.

What I find highly amusing is that for the some roleplay restrictions you claim hinder Serenwilde/Celest, Xenthos could just as easily push something in the Ebonguard that banned the sell of crow cloaks to anyone who wasn't a member of Glomdoring.

Quite frankly, it would make sense from a roleplay perspective and a we-need-village perspective.

If you dont want the village, then why complain about not being able to influence it?

The crow cloak cost of influencing undead for glomdoring is much more expensive than any amount of power able to be gained from said village.

Its in Glomdoring's self intrest to not need crow cloaks to influence places.

However, that does not change the fact, that although its wonderfull when the game changes do to player actions, its not good for the game to change just because you want everything but are not willing to roleplay wanting everything.

Were not complaining about not being able to get it, its mostly complaints on how Magnagora and Glomdoring have a village that only they would be able to get if they stuck to their RP where as Serenwilde and Celest are one village short in the long run of being able to influence in comparison.

You mean, Xenthos could just as easily push something in the Glomdoring that banned the sale of crow cloaks to anyone who isn't a member of the Glomdoring.

I guess my question is... why would you assume this isn't the case?

How about because it isn't fair? I realize life isn't always fair, but Lusternia is a game where all organizations should have a relatively equal footing or equal potential.

Angkrag disrupts this. It gives an unfair advantage to Magnagora as unlike Celest, who currently doesn't have a village, Magnagora doesn't EVER have to worry about that.

Likewise, Angkrag is a mining village - one of the most of the most profitable. Why is it that Serenwilde, Celest and Glomdoring have to fight like hell between Rockholm and Southgard yet Magnagora just gets a free ride?

Game balance is an issue that must be considered.

Lots of things in game are not fair because of player's political decisions.

Why should this be any different?

The game mechanics here are 100% fair.

The politics in the game makes it so that only Magnagora gets the village.

You don't seem to care about RP when it comes to owning both dwarven villages that are fighting over who is king.

Who's the one metagaming here?