Again, you fail at reading. You say "I help Celest! They love me because of that." I say "You do more damage to Celest than you do Magnagora."

And i'm betting, as Aseyra was pretty tame before Hajamin and you got a hold of her, that her "help" was more you going "Hey, lets go kill Demon Lords!" and her feeling obliged. Now, that's an assumption, which i'm sure you'll say is wrong - but I bet if Hajamin hadn't pushed her to become a combatant, the situation would have been different.

And Magnagora has tried to give Celest peace time and time again, and Celest always screws it up. So clearly, Magnagora doesn't just do things because they can - they try to let Celest breathe, and warmongers like you push the poor gasping bastards on just because it suits your agenda. You grief entire organizations with your bloodthirst. I know you don't care about Celest, but you do damage to the very fabric of the game OOCly through your actions by breeding war in times when Celest could have really used the possible break.

Point blank:

Celest knows what I'm doing. Celest isn't stupid and has the power to make a decision to enemy me or not to enemy me. This isn't my decision. Of course, it might be inconvient, but I'd deal.

Furthermore, the other thread was about combat and how people are not improving. I don't see how Sidra managed to extrapolate it into thus, but it isn't very relevant. Celest has actually gotten better as far as I'm concerned in terms of defending Celestia so ya, that's about it.

Is there any reason why it could not occur in the future?


Nonetheless, it is very possible and easy now. As items can be stored indefinitely, I do not see this as a problem.

And both Narsrim and Sidra... just calm down. There's no need to get so heated over this relatively minor issue.

Are all of your arguments based on assumptions? The person who pushed and pushed and pushed for Aesyra to organize (and yes, Aesyra did the organization) the death of the Demon Lords was Hajamin. Aesyra also was not tame. She was more than willing to strike out so long as it was organized and well placed. I even missed a time period when the Order bought Elaria a dagger of reincarnation so we could fight them and Aesyra tore me into bite size pieces.

And finally, I'm not Celest. I think that's pretty obvious. If I raid Nil with Munsia, Magnagora has no justification to attack Celestia on the basis that "Celest struck out" anymore than they have to just attack Celestia. Furthermore if we take a look back, you will note that Magnagora has always raided Celestia.

Supernals have died way more than Demon Lords. There was a point when Raziela died like 4 months in a row. Marcalo used to just poof in, attack an angel, poof out, etc.

While you are entitled to your opinion as much as any, I find it somewhat bizarre that you go on as if you have some magical insight into the situation that Celest as a whole is blind to. Celest encourages me to raid Nil. Vesar gives me his damn cubix on the basis that I will raid because it affords both combat practice and a chance to strike back for Celest.

Get with the picture.

Wait wait wait.. so.. its possible for Magnagora to help Glomdoring in the future.. even though they don't now.. but it isn't possible for Glomdoring to oppose Magnagora in the future because they don't now? That makes no sense.

And its not possible and easy. Because everyone thinks like you - Glomdoring would never even dream of turning on Magnagora. And, in all honesty, Magnagora isn't really that much more organized when it comes to planning ahead. They run around like chickens with their head cut off when they don't have one of a few key officials there to order them around.

If Serens complain that its too hard to get Crow Cloaks, and since Magnagorans suffer the same restrictions, obviously it is just as difficult for Magnagorans, and not "easy". Its possible, yes, but it would take effort that no one views as worth it because they view Glomdoring as not even in the competition. If you're trying to force all the other current opinions into the equation, you can't forget that one.




Are you completely incapable of reading? I said you and Hajamin got a hold of her. I said that if Hajamin hadn't pushed her to be a combatant. Before that, Aseyra would only influence during revolts. I was around back in the day when she avoided combat. So I know how it changed.

And I never said that Celest leadership didn't support you - in fact, I stated that that's part of the problem, that they're going to let you get away with whatever you want. They think you help them, when anyone with an outside perspective can see the damage you're doing.

You, sir, are a griefer. IG and OOG. You're nothing but a bully who tries to break people and get them to back down - well, you won't be adding me to your body count. The more you keep fighting me, the more i'll fight back, until either you stop posting or this thread is locked. You're a bully, Narsrim. You push people around because it suits your agenda. You take IC conflicts OOC. You take OOC conflicts IC. You're nothing but a bully, and i'm not going to back down.

Are you friends with Aesyra? Do you speak with her on AIM? Did you spend time sparring with her so she could fight when she wanted to? I mean seriously stop trying to tell me that you know because you don't know.

While yes, Hajamin was definately a factor (I certainly don't consider myself one), Aesyra always had it in her. She is a strong person who would have likely sought out other sources. In fact, I'm going to send her an AIM and ask her to post in this thread. I'd love to see her respond to your bs.

As for your opinion, that's just it. While you can rant on this, your opinion is no better than anyone else's. However, the people who make the decisions obviously disagree so there you have it. You can play this little "everyone is blinded but me" role, but seriously, don't expect to get anywhere with it.

And you can stand firm. Please do so. You have my full blessings. I hope it makes you forever content that you can stand up against someone on a forum. Quite honestly, I don't put anymore weight in this than just ranting off my opinion here and there... but you obviously do and I shall in some bizarre way try to respect you and the "cause" you stand for.

I was going to point out this problem in your arguments, but decided that there were enough distinctions for the two situations to be considered differently.

There appear to me to be very good reasons for Glomdoring to avoid killing Magnagorans in Ankgrad.

The reasons for Magnagora to NOT take advantage of an opportunity to attack their enemies in an arena where they have nothing to lose seem far less convincing. That's not considering good reasons for avoiding killing or hindering Glomdorings, which are much the same as above.

Glomdoring has as much chance of taking Rockholm and Southgard as anyone else. The same as Celest, the same as Serenwilde, the same as Magnagora. The only limiting factor is prior control of Ankgrad.


I really don't think this is true. Magnagorans do not suffer the same restrictions. As far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong), most Magnagorans do not find Crow a symbol of everything they abhor. They are not diametrically opposed to the organization. They enjoy a relationship that defaults to cordial and friendly between the dark commune and dark city, with few barriers to trade.

Moondancers, as a whole, do not either. Yes, Crow is disliked, but he isn't the symbol of the antichrist (so to speak) that he is for Hartstone. Hence why Shorlen uses a crow cloak, and sees nothing wrong with it. It looks funny and smells funny, but it doesn't make him feel any stranger when wearing it than any other cloak. He doesn't LIKE having it on for long periods of time, of course, but that isn't really an issue during influencing and such.

Don't you let Elryn catch you!

First, it wasn't a problem in my argument. I was simply pointing out that they aren't currently helping, so, right now, it is a free village for Celest/Serenwilde by your definition of "free". My argument was that no village is free by mechanics, only by player choice.

And it is illegal for those of the Blacktalon to sell Crow Cloaks to anyone. That includes Magnagorans. So they do suffer the same restrictions as Seren/Celest. Seren/Celest have both worked with the "dark city" at one time or another, so don't try and say its impossible for them to use Crow cloaks.

The only reason it is tolerated it because you are the High Wisdom. If any other person was caught using one, I think it is quite apparent that consequences would result they would be likewise banned.

This is more a matter of a "we don't have a rule that says you can't" moreso than it is matter of it being acceptable. Merloch and Brylle would flip if they were still around.

I'm not saying "everyone is blinded but me" as i'm not the only one who thinks this way. I'm saying a lot of peope seem to count Glomdoring out - which is true. Hell, you're the one who told me I needed a reality check for thinking Glomdoring was on equal grounds with anyone. There are a lot of people without blinders on - you just don't happen to be one of them.

And don't even start the "Oh, I don't put any stock into this" when you talk to people on the phone and AIM about issues that are raised on the forum. Don't play innocent when your ego is so precious to you spend your time on the forum trying to beat people with your opinion. Sure, just as valid my ass.

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I wonder, has anyone thought to ask if Raven could speak with the dead before he was tainted? I bet he could, given that he was a Raven, who is tied in with death as much as crows are. In which case, you're not tapping into a tainted power at all.

Elryn would go on a crusade against it, for sure.

It would be like Hartstone leading around shadow fae, to him.

But as long as you're quiet, he need never find out! Besides, its Shorlen... and I can't very well offend my pilot.

Edit: And I think you mean undead, Sidra.

That's why noone knows about it IC, except a few Celestians But still, if it came up, Shorlen would argue that the cloak has no strong link to Crow, and that if it was actually tainted and not just made of the feathres of some bird, it would feel different when he put it on.

Why would Revan speak with undead as a spirit of Nature? Undead are an anathema to nature - they exist outside natural cycles of life and death, etc.



And Narsrim would argue that you might as well get a shadow cauldron and geomancer staff to fully customize the outfit. However, I'm pretty sure that if push came to shove, it'd be something that was quickly added in on the "do not do" list.

No, I mean the dead. The Spirits of Paavik are dead. Undead are still the dead. Why do you think in zombie movies its always "the dead walk"

If you can speak with the dead in general, then you can speak with the undead, as the undead are just the dead who havn't left.

At least, based on how I veiw the terminology, however, that's just like different pronunciation of the same word. It doesn't effect what i'm actually saying.

If Raven could speak with the dead, then he had the ability to speak with the undead, and as such you could argue that you're upholding the last remaining legacy of the true Raven.

I'm not even going to bother arguing OOC about the absurdity of that statement.

I know, let's make another totally random assumption. It might clarify the situation.



I don't think it matters anyways. If brought before the Moonhart Circle, The Moon Avatars, and Lady Lisaera - do you honestly think that Shorlen would have a chance IC trying to justify using a Crow Cloak when he went so far as to argue that "stealing" with beam was a terrible, horrible act... but using an item to speak with unnatural creatures made from the feather of a tainted Great Spirit isn't?

It wasn't a random assumption. PLEASE try and read. I asked if anyone had inquired as to whether or not Raven could speak with the dead. I didn't say assume. I said ask. Lisaera or Hart or Chuchip or the Moon Avatars would know. ASK.

And please, again, Narsrim, I beg you to read.

He's resourceful - I'm sure that, just like Narsrim (the character), he could find a way to justify one while condeming the other.